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    Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 18:58
I agree that Trump deserves a certain amount of credit for trying, but his style is all bully-boy while Kim Jun Un, typical of his family line, is two faced, saying one thing while doing another.

Perhaps it could turn out better if someone independent of the USA were to (try to) negotiate with KJU.

Even so, I can see a truth behind the NK version of why the latest talks broke down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 10:19
What?  With Kim Jun Un???

Trump has intentionally chosen an impossible task, if he succeeds, he will get praise and adulation, if he fails, no one can really blame him.  And if he makes the situation worse, well in the long run (or even the short run), it is not his problem.  So, he is making it worse.  But some people will give him credit for "trying."

But, as far as Kim Jun Un is concerned, he is getting legitimacy, and buying more time to build more missiles.  For Trump you would think this is a bad thing, but not so.  For US it is a bad thing, for Trump it makes him look like he is getting an "E" for effort.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 09:36
N-E-G-O-T-I-A-T-E.

Will someone please explain the meaning of this word to Donald Trump?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2019 at 09:31
A rod for his own back = brought it all on himself.

I don't rail against Trump's policies in general, just his public persona, his lies and exaggerations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2019 at 08:15
Of course, it would be better for the Republicans if Trump was impeached, the sooner the better, so that they could get someone else in there that does not have his baggage.  Likewise, it might be better for the democrats to run against Trump, not against an unknown Republican candidate but of course that is the case if they don't destroy themselves (which it looks like they are doing).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2019 at 08:10
"a rod for his own back"?

The "problem" with Donald Trump is that he was duly elected, deposing him will just look like sour grapes to his supporters, especially since the Clintons were so loose with any appearance of moral integrity.  It is an interesting question, what crime or misdemeanor would be bothersome enough to actually rise to the level of consciousness for his followers?  Nothing he does or says bothers his supporters while almost everything he does and says bother his opponents.  There may be a point that there is too much evidence to ignore and not impeaching him becomes ridiculous.  But, if we can, I think we should wait it out until the 2020 election and hope he gets voted out then.  But, again the Democrats seem to be in a race to demonstrate who can be more radical.  If that is the case, then a (corrupt) Donald Trump might be the lesser of evils.

Like Jordan B. Peterson said, "you gotta live with these people." meaning the Republicans for the democrats, and the democrats for the Republicans.

Republicans (conservatives) have traditionally thought the democrats a little stupid, but well intentioned, the liberals (not classical liberals) on the other hand, believe that conservatives are evil.  They cannot imagine anyone disagreeing with them.  Now, that animosity of the left, is being repaid on the right.  The liberals and the media are stupid in not understanding where this rage is coming from, they assume it is some kind of white supremacist plot, but the fact is, white supremacists are rare, having been purged from conservativism by William F. Buckley.  You're much more likely to find Black separatists [supremacists] and Hispanic followers of Atzetlan, especially on campus, then you are to find white supremacists.

Condorcet and Godwin thought that Malthus was evil, Malthus on the other hand though Condorcet and Godwin a little misguided, but generally good intentioned.  It probably sticks in Godwin and Condorcet's craw that the general public knows of Malthus, whereas they are largely forgotten.

Thomas Sowell has (at least) two books dealing with difference between the current left and right, _Conflict of Visions_, and _the Anointed Vision_. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 12:25
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Let's not take this so personally.

We all have different views on many things, including Donald Trump, but that isn't to say that I don't respect your right to support him.

But you must admit, he's made a rod for his own back.
Aren't we supposed to listen to what's being said and ignore the fact that you may not love the messenger?  Obama did some things that I appreciated such as normalizing US/Cuban relations and his release of prisoners who were sentenced to decades for non violent crimes.  To not acknowledge good work is often hypocritical and always small.


Edited by Vanuatu - 12 Feb 2019 at 12:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 10:20
Let's not take this so personally.

We all have different views on many things, including Donald Trump, but that isn't to say that I don't respect your right to support him.

But you must admit, he's made a rod for his own back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 00:52
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Forget all of the past history, Donald Trump has done, and continues to do immeasurable damage to the American brand and to US integrity.

His behaviour since inauguration is reason enough, IMHO, to sack him.
Yea start your list here, all those terrible things, toyomotor.
And then I'll list the success of this admin so far. Eager to do so. 

His behavior? Obama was allowed to act like an idiot for 8 years so whitey could prove that he isn't a racist, all whitey proved is that he can ignore his own mind when pressured sufficiently by media and leftists lunatics. Democrats want to execute viable babies that survive abortion. 



Edited by Vanuatu - 12 Feb 2019 at 07:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 00:08
Forget all of the past history, Donald Trump has done, and continues to do immeasurable damage to the American brand and to US integrity.

His behaviour since inauguration is reason enough, IMHO, to sack him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 13:01
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Nothing Obama or Hillary did will absolve Trump.  But don't worry, he has a buddy in the Kremlin spreading disinformazione.

Hillary, Bill and Obama are out of the game, they are the old bastards, we have to worry about the new bastard now.  Or don't worry about him if you don't want.  What me worry?
Worry about the racists/baby killers in Virginia's government.
Absolve Trump from what exactly? Oh that's right, you wouldn't know. 
Yet you seem to have some silent supporter(s), Hillary and Bill are toxic but not without some influence. 

Obama was still very active in the democrat party and speaking against this POTUS, he only quiets down when Comey is exposed for his bias and disinformation in the--- "Russia Probe"

Obama is sweating the question about why he couldn't stop Russian interference- small clue- his sycophants convinced him that Hillary would win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 10:15
Nothing Obama or Hillary did will absolve Trump.  But don't worry, he has a buddy in the Kremlin spreading disinformazione.

Hillary, Bill and Obama are out of the game, they are the old bastards, we have to worry about the new bastard now.  Or don't worry about him if you don't want.  What me worry?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 03:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 02:57
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

  
There is a natural finishing point for the investigation when there is nothing more in the (sleaze ball) campaign to discover.  There are two schools of thought, shut it down, because it is getting results, or not shut it down because it is (still) getting results.  These investigations have a wide leeway.

From what I understand Mueller is publishing stuff as he goes along in the court notes when he is working on a specific indictment.  Just shutting him down, would not really shut it down.
Here are some real sleazeballs who invented a "narrative indictment" and coerced admissions of guilt unrelated to Trump's campaign. Thank goodness they were here to protect us from democracy :)
 

Two more officials cited in FBI texts step down

The FBI's media chief and the head of the Justice Department's anti-espionage section are both departing.

http://https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/08/fbi-texts-officials-resign-400533

The list of officials frequently discussed in the texts who are no longer in their jobs seems to grow by the day. It includes former FBI Director James Comey, who was fired by Trump; former Deputy Director Andrew McCabe; Comey’s chief of staff, James Rybicki; FBI General Counsel James Baker; as well as Strzok, who was booted off the special counsel investigation and sent to a job in the FBI’s personnel division.



Edited by Vanuatu - 11 Feb 2019 at 02:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 02:05
Evidence for Clinton's collusion with the Russians grows. Consider the fraudulent dossier compiled by Christopher Steele with the help of a retired KGB operative. It was the basis for a fraudulent FISA application. Or read the investigative journalism of John Solomon and Greg Jarrett.

Nothing Trump did will absolve Hillary and Obama for colluding with the Russians. It's coming, Mueller will be lucky if he isn't forced to resign.

Evidence of Trump collusion has yet to show itself, notwithstanding "IF IT'S TRUE-CNN" ad nauseam.

The behavior of democrats in public, recently and including Obama but most definitely Hillary's has been an embarrassment for years and years to many of us. We are free to see what we see.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 04:57
considering how much much of the republican party has become a Trump subsidiary, such reassurances are not, well, very reassuring.  Especially if it is framed as how Obama handled the Russian interference.  It is an interesting question, but it smacks of the old Trump theme that everything is Obama's fault (and Trump is just a misunderstood "innocent" who everybody is picking on).  

The Trumpites seem to think that if Obama and Hillary got off from their crimes because of a technicality, for some reason that absolves Trump.  It is like a robber saying, Simpson got a way with premeditated murder of two, and all I did was shoot someone in holdup that went the way I absolutely did not intend it to go.  It is not my fault and I shouldn't be held accountable.  Trump has been using and hiding behind hi-priced lawyers all his life, Obama and Hillary at least understand how to behave in public.  It seems like it is not whether something will trip Trump up, but what.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 04:27
The links to this story have been sabotaged. Do you want me to copy the whole thing? Can you search?  It won't let me cut/paste properly. 
http://https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/08/trump-media-richard-burr-1159002

In an interview with CBS published Thursday, Burr (R-N.C.) gave glimpses into the dynamics and scope of his committee's probe, which was launched shortly before Trump's 2017 inauguration and has now stretched into its third year. Burr told CBS that the committee staff has interviewed more than 200 witnesses from multiple countries and reviewed over 300,000 pages."Based on the evidence to date," Burr said, the committee could not definitively say there was collusion between Trump and the Russians.

"If we write a report based upon the facts that we have, then we don't have anything that would suggest there was collusion by the Trump campaign and Russia," Burr told CBS.

Still, the senator said some questions raised over the investigation could occupy the committee "for the next decade," and that portions of the final report could be so classified that they are never revealed to the public. Burr said his committee is "close to pushing out the door" a report on the Obama administration's response to Russian election interference, a release that the chairman said could come within a "matter of weeks."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 03:35
fix your link.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 10:33
http://https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/07/richard-burr-senate-russia-investigation-1156624

Senate Intelligence chairman: No evidence of Trump-Russia collusion

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 02:02
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote I always assumed it was deliberately ambiguous, to justify a never-ending investigation.

Not at all. We have many ambiguous words in the English language, most of which are only interpreted in context.
In the case of Trump, no evidence and no charges. It's ambiguous by design of Mueller. He has repeatedly omitted exculpatory evidence in cases heard by the FISA court, in fact 75 times, not all of Mueller's doing. He was admonished by the FISA court for cases heard between 2001 and 2004. 
This is news by the way, just revealed by The Hill.

 

Mueller hauled before secret FISA court to address FBI abuses in 2002, Congress told

the former FBI director and current special prosecutor in the Russia case, once was hauled before the nation’s secret intelligence court to address a large number of instances in which the FBI cheated on sensitive surveillance warrants, according to evidence gathered by congressional investigators.


Edited by Vanuatu - 08 Feb 2019 at 10:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2019 at 01:59
Quote There is something called quashing a subpoena.  I am not sure on what grounds that happens.

There are quite a number of reasons that this could be done-
  • if the process from which the subpoena is born was shown to be defective at law;
  • if the process was seen to be corrupt;
  • if the witness to be subpoenaed was deceased or incompetent (insane); and
  • if a lawyer representing the witness showed conclusively that there was no reason/validity for the issue of the subpoena because the witness had no knowledge of the evidence sought from him/her.
There would be more, but not being terribly au fait with US Law, that's all that I can think of because they're all common to the British Based systems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2019 at 15:05
There is something called quashing a subpoena.  I am not sure on what grounds that happens.

I think that the Trump campaign is the gift that just keeps on giving.  It seems that it has been having a hard time getting to the bottom of things, because there doesn't seem to be a bottom.  I think that those who have been charged, have been charged for real things in the criminal code, stuff that if they didn't know better, well they should have.  But I do find it funny that the left gets all worked up about since they're the ones that embrace moral relativism.  And I also find the "conservative" defense of Trump also funny because the right in general are usually the ones who have moral standards.  Conservatives choose Trump because he is doing something about the insidious creep of increasingly loose morals ordained by legislation in our society.  
There is a natural finishing point for the investigation when there is nothing more in the (sleaze ball) campaign to discover.  There are two schools of thought, shut it down, because it is getting results, or not shut it down because it is (still) getting results.  These investigations have a wide leeway.

From what I understand Mueller is publishing stuff as he goes along in the court notes when he is working on a specific indictment.  Just shutting him down, would not really shut it down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2019 at 14:49
Quote I always assumed it was deliberately ambiguous, to justify a never-ending investigation.

Not at all. We have many ambiguous words in the English language, most of which are only interpreted in context.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2019 at 10:54
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Not focusing on Trump in particular, just the terminology.

Exactly what more can be said about terminology? 
And why does it matter?


Terminology, when used inappropriately, changes our language.  

It only matters when people, with no legal training, confuse the meaning of the two words and their application in law.
Ah, well you know people.
I always assumed it was deliberately ambiguous, to justify a never-ending investigation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2019 at 09:17
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Not focusing on Trump in particular, just the terminology.

Exactly what more can be said about terminology? 
And why does it matter?


Terminology, when used inappropriately, changes our language.  

It only matters when people, with no legal training, confuse the meaning of the two words and their application in law.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Feb 2019 at 00:02
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Not focusing on Trump in particular, just the terminology.

Exactly what more can be said about terminology? 
And why does it matter?

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2019 at 09:37
Not focusing on Trump in particular, just the terminology.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2019 at 07:27
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

There has been discussion on this forum about the terms "collusion" and "conspiracy", and, basically if they were interchangeable.

I have argued that they are. Journalists, and others not trained in law, seem to believe that while collusion is not a crime, conspiracy is. The following text from an article on the Just Security website goes a long way in explaining.
Quote

toyomotor, you and your friend  Ryan Goodman ARE MAKING MY POINT  
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

by Ryan Goodman

August 1, 2018

  • social-image
  •  
  • twitter icon
  •  
  • reddit icon

I’ll make this short. President Donald Trump and his lawyer Rudy Giuliani are nowtrying to claim that “collusion is not a crime.”

Name the statute Ryan. Collusion to have an office party is not illegal. What are you colluding ABOUT? 

Opposition Research against your political opponents? That's not illegal Ryan.

Quote Several months ago, I wrote a New York Times Op-ed about the misuse of the term “collusion,” and earlier this summer I testified before Congress and very purposefully never once used the word “collusion” in my written testimony
That's bc there was no evidence of a CRIME Ryan.

 

Quote which outlined possible crimes for working with Russia to interfere in the 2016 election.
One of Lefty's favorite words, bc no actual proof or investigative work is required, so no reality just emotional wishin'

Quote I stuck instead to the terms one finds in the U.S. federal code such as conspiracy and federal campaign finance law violations.
Well Ryan the correct terms should be used and if you had evidence to go along with your aspirations of a Trump lynching then you should have shared it.

Quote That said, the acts we would ordinarily associate with collusion could easily amount to a crime.
except that there is no evidence of CRIMINAL COLLUSION.

[quote]We could have a detailed discussion of which acts and which crimes exactly.

But they don't imply guilt any more than reporting that Cohen was asked by Trump to lie to congress, only to be contradicted by Mueller himself. Note this is Mueller's first denial of CNN lies and that's bc of AG Barr.

[quote]But here I want to just make one point. Any discussion in this space should include an understanding that the U.S. Justice Department has set out explicitly that acts of collusion can amount to a federal crime, and has done so specifically with respect to the jurisdiction of special counsel, Robert Mueller.

 Evidence Proving Acts of criminal collusion against Trump have been as tricky as the Russian lawyer who admitted lying about her meetings with Trump Jr. She thought it would buy her time & keep her in the US.

http://https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/01/mueller-investigation-turns-law-upside-down/



Edited by Vanuatu - 05 Feb 2019 at 07:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2019 at 12:37
There has been discussion on this forum about the terms "collusion" and "conspiracy", and, basically if they were interchangeable.

I have argued that they are. Journalists, and others not trained in law, seem to believe that while collusion is not a crime, conspiracy is. The following text from an article on the Just Security website goes a long way in explaining.
Quote
by Ryan Goodman

August 1, 2018

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I’ll make this short. President Donald Trump and his lawyer Rudy Giuliani are nowtrying to claim that “collusion is not a crime.” Several months ago, I wrote a New York Times Op-ed about the misuse of the term “collusion,” and earlier this summer I testified before Congress and very purposefully never once used the word “collusion” in my written testimony which outlined possible crimes for working with Russia to interfere in the 2016 election. I stuck instead to the terms one finds in the U.S. federal code such as conspiracy and federal campaign finance law violations.

That said, the acts we would ordinarily associate with collusion could easily amount to a crime. We could have a detailed discussion of which acts and which crimes exactly. But here I want to just make one point. Any discussion in this space should include an understanding that the U.S. Justice Department has set out explicitly that acts of collusion can amount to a federal crime, and has done so specifically with respect to the jurisdiction of special counsel, Robert Mueller.

It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2019 at 14:09
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote The reason the democratic narrative has turned to " a sitting president cannot be subpoenaed" is bc there is no evidence to support a subpoena.

You're still looking at the world through rose coloured glasses. That's not what the articles have been saying. If correct, they say that a sitting president can't be subpoenaed because of his Executive position.

Meanwhile, the other camp is saying that in fact he can be.

I think I'll let the dust settle on this one.

So, Clinton and Nixon were not impeached and soupenised in their executive positions?

And "If Correct" isn't a line for an objective journalist, FACTS are appropriate for news reporters, pundits are different and we expect opinion and speculation.

People who run around saying "IF Correct" are wearing the funny glasses. 

Democrat/hollywood types think Marxism will be fine once we finally have the Real Marxism

Will AU be taking on any Honduran migrants? How about Germany? Not interested? 




Edited by Vanuatu - 03 Feb 2019 at 14:21
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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