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Trump & foreign matters

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    Posted: 13 Mar 2017 at 20:53
This is meant to replace "dump on Trump," which was originally just for the election.

There is a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth these days.  One could see it in the Academy awards from the people who want to be loved by everybody.  But I think that things are over exaggerated for affect.  The presidency of Donald Trump will be a significant one, one way or the other, it will be "colossal."  Colossal what is another question, but we should not presuppose what it will be, before hand, but try to work with it.  And by with it, I also mean against it, but within the realm of good faith, and fair play. 

Trump is not an ordinary politician by any stretch of the imagination, therefore we are in uncharted territory.  Both in the foreign matters and domestic.  The usual formulas for judging a politician go out the window in regards of judging Trump.
Example:
How we hear the wrong message:
I think of the intelligence estimates of WMDs in Iraq at the beginning of the Iraq War.  The US and the rest of the world genuinely believed that Iraq had WMDs.  But they were surprised when the invasion did not turn up anything, and the naysayers blasted them for "lying."  Saddam Hussein, they said, had been saying all along that he had gotten rid of the WMDs, and so he had.
But Hussein had been saying one thing to the West and another thing to Iran, and the intelligence community was listening to both things.  For Iran, Saddam Hussein was saying that he still had WMDs. 

Problem is we were listening to what he said to us, and what he was saying to them.  And the intelligence community took the wrong message seriously.   

What does that have to do President Trump?  Well, part of the domestic population, the part that more heavily influences the media, think Trump is terrible, and they look to other parts of the world for "confirmation," to find people that agree with them.  The problem is, those people are often just echoing what the American media is saying.  So, you can not trust what NPR says about foreign perception, nor can you trust the BBC.  Not because they are lying, but because they are telling you what you want to hear.  Not even consciously, but they are echoing you.
They are looking at the alarm Trump causes, and they often are viscerally responding to that alarm.  And the funny thing is that alarm looked at the foreign response (which often it has created), and gets even more alarmed.  It is a feedback loop, and it doesn't benefit anyone really, except Narcissistic Hollywood types in love with their own reflection.  The question is how to ground out the perception of Trump and his policies on something real. 
 
So I ask my fellow posters for comments and criticism related to Trump, the US and the rest of the world.  If you don't like Trump, try to find something good about him.  And if you do like Trump, try to find some "difficulty' he is creating, and acknowledge it as a difficulty.  If you're negative, look for the positive, if you're positive, look for the negative.Ying Yang

Example:
There was an editorial in the Wall Street Journal, that complimented him on tweeting in support of the opposition leader of Venezuela.  Obama had been cordial to demagogues Chavez and his successor (Nicholas Moduro?), and ignored the opposition, while the demagogues ran the country into the ground.  Trump, however, was putting a spotlight on the jailed opposition leader, which the government would prefer to ignore, and let rot in a hole.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2017 at 09:27
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

This is meant to replace "dump on Trump," which was originally just for the election.

There is a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth these days.  One could see it in the Academy awards from the people who want to be loved by everybody.  But I think that things are over exaggerated for affect.

Agree, there is no end to the horror, the pet therapy.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

 
Problem is we were listening to what he said to us, and what he was saying to them.  And the intelligence community took the wrong message seriously.   

What does that have to do President Trump?  Well, part of the domestic population, the part that more heavily influences the media, think Trump is terrible, and they look to other parts of the world for "confirmation," to find people that agree with them.  The problem is, those people are often just echoing what the American media is saying.  So, you can not trust what NPR says about foreign perception, nor can you trust the BBC.  Not because they are lying, but because they are telling you what you want to hear.  Not even consciously, but they are echoing you.
They are looking at the alarm Trump causes, and they often are viscerally responding to that alarm.  And the funny thing is that alarm looked at the foreign response (which often it has created), and gets even more alarmed.  It is a feedback loop, and it doesn't benefit anyone really, except Narcissistic Hollywood types in love with their own reflection.  The question is how to ground out the perception of Trump and his policies on something real.
Focus on the economy. Jobs, markets, investors all poised to see those tax cuts and relief from some redundant regulations. Wages increase for technical jobs that do not require a degree like iPhones and maybe Honda. He's doing good things and the press should mention it.
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

So I ask my fellow posters for comments and criticism related to Trump, the US and the rest of the world.  If you don't like Trump, try to find something good about him.  And if you do like Trump, try to find some "difficulty' he is creating, and acknowledge it as a difficulty.  If you're negative, look for the positive, if you're positive, look for the negative.Ying Yang


It's easy to see that Trump is often difficult.The stubbornness is no less than what he gets, in fact people have been vicious about attacking his family. So Trump tells them what dishonest people they are, it's warranted because of the relentlessly biased media. Now media talks about itself like HAL in 2001.

HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do. 
Dave Bowman: What are you talking about, HAL? 
HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it. 
Dave Bowman: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL. 
HAL: I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen. 
Dave Bowman: [feigning ignorance] Where the hell did you get that idea, HAL? 
HAL: Dave, although you took very thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2017 at 11:26
For the good of the USA and it's people, I sincerely hope Trump calms down a bit, stops sniping at people, takes advice and gets on with the job of running the country.

If he wanted controversy, he's certainly got it.

If he wanted publicity, he's got it.

Now, how about shut the **** up and get on with the job?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2017 at 21:21
the pet therapy.  good one. LOL
although it should invoke the death of Kurtz in Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness (of which Apocalypse Now is a version).  On a riverboat in the Belgian Congo the main character watches Kurtz die, Kurtz last words on his deathbed are, "the horror! the horror!"

Now we have the modern version, "the horror! the pet therapy!'

Rahm Emmanuel, Obama's chief of staff and now mayor of Chicago, said, "never let a crisis go to waste."  In other words, you can push through a lot of things during a crisis, which during normal operations you couldn't get done.  It is a cynical and manipulative point of view.  In some ways it describes Trump quite well, but the difference is that crisis is the norm for Trump and he does quite well in it.  It is his native habitat.  Blaming him for the crisis he creates is like blaming a fish for the water in which he swims.  He is not aware of this as anything other than what he has to do to get things done.  Conflict for him is par for the course.  It is a very shallow view, but part of the problem with the media and the left is that they have read deeper meanings into thing that Trump has said.

Think about sailing ships, if you have the horse latitudes like the Saragossa Sea, you can get caught in the doldrums.  That is bad.  If you go to the other extreme you have storms that can wash over a ship and capsize it.  That is bad.  In-between you have a strong breeze and then helps you get a nice steady pace.  Trump is someone who can harness the gale, ride it out and do quite well, for himself.  The question is whether in the process he will contribute to others not making it.  Trump has always been for himself, the question is how much is he really for America or the World.  He does however, even in selfishness have a better understanding of the little guy getting swamped in America politics.  Better than either of the political parties, better than any of the major political actors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2017 at 22:35
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

For the good of the USA and it's people, I sincerely hope Trump calms down a bit, stops sniping at people, takes advice and gets on with the job of running the country.

If he wanted controversy, he's certainly got it.

If he wanted publicity, he's got it.

Now, how about shut the **** up and get on with the job?

Why do you say "get on with the job" as if we were talking about Obama? Trump is like a train, good analogy. He has a mandate, he's moving forward with it.

Who can account for what your media/our media- is reporting?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2017 at 23:05

President Trump does _not_ have a mandate.  Trump won the electoral college, but lost the popular vote, I would not call that a mandate.  
President Obama originally won with 57% (?) of the popular vote, he _declared_ that that gave him a mandate.  However, whenever you consider that probably between 1/3 and 1/2 of the American people vote in a _Presidential_ election, then at best Obama got 28% of those of eligible age to vote.  I would not consider that a mandate either.

Considering that it is hard to get registered voters to vote in the US, the idea that 3.9 million illegals would vote (all for Hillary) is a bit preposterous.  But what is the intention and the consequences of Trump's naming various foreign bogeymen?  It is obviously politically expedient for him to do so.  Question is though, what might be the unintended consequences?

Trump as a train is a good analogy, he does tend to run over anyone and anything that gets in his way.  On the other hand, it is not like you cannot see the train-a-coming....  What will happen if there is a derailment?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 00:25
Vanuatu wrote
Quote Who can account for what your media/our media- is reporting?

Well, as I've written elsewhere, that's the problem. Our media reports what your media presents and I wouldn't have a clue whether the US sources are unbiased and accurate or not.

As for getting on with the job, I wasn't saying that he isn't, but that more evidence of this, and less of his sniping at Obama, judges, the media etc, would be of more interest.

As to whether or not Trump has a mandate to govern, I don't know. There's been so much in the media about the popular vote versus the Electoral College that it's hard for me to determine what's true and what's not.

franciscosan says that Trump doesn't have a mandate, and uses a train as an analogy for Trump.

Quote Trump as a train is a good analogy, he does tend to run over anyone and anything that gets in his way.  On the other hand, it is not like you cannot see the train-a-coming....  What will happen if there is a derailment?

I can't make anyfirther comment.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cardmines52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2017 at 14:36
I like him. He is good at tv show . Female anchor legs open on tv Cuase I think he can be a good leader.



Edited by Cardmines52 - 10 Jun 2017 at 11:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2017 at 14:41
Hello Cardmines52, big hearing going on right now over press leaks and Sessions meetings with Russian ambassador. Stick around! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2017 at 15:17
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:


President Trump does _not_ have a mandate.  Trump won the electoral college, but lost the popular vote, I would not call that a mandate.  
President Obama originally won with 57% (?) of the popular vote, he _declared_ that that gave him a mandate.  However, whenever you consider that probably between 1/3 and 1/2 of the American people vote in a _Presidential_ election, then at best Obama got 28% of those of eligible age to vote.  I would not consider that a mandate either.


Yes he do!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2017 at 23:09
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Hello Cardmines52, big hearing going on right now over press leaks and Sessions meetings with Russian ambassador. Stick around! 

The media has gone so far as to say that the intelligence "community" are warning that the presidency is in trouble, the biggest troble in fact since Watergate.

Trumps allegations of having been wire tapped have been dismissed as lies after an investigation was launched, and his campaign links to Russia are under even more scrutiny.

The man continues to lie, he claims to have had a GREAT meeting with Angela Merkel, TV footage, including audio, shows that he refused to shake hands with her.

Does Trump think that his outright lies and alternative facts are believed by the American people. Let's not make any more excuses for him, he's a liar and not trustworthy enough to hold the position of the worlds most powerful man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 01:09
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Hello Cardmines52, big hearing going on right now over press leaks and Sessions meetings with Russian ambassador. Stick around! 

The media has gone so far as to say that the intelligence "community" are warning that the presidency is in trouble, the biggest troble in fact since Watergate.

Trumps allegations of having been wire tapped have been dismissed as lies after an investigation was launched, and his campaign links to Russia are under even more scrutiny.

The man continues to lie, he claims to have had a GREAT meeting with Angela Merkel, TV footage, including audio, shows that he refused to shake hands with her.

Does Trump think that his outright lies and alternative facts are believed by the American people. Let's not make any more excuses for him, he's a liar and not trustworthy enough to hold the position of the worlds most powerful man.
 Boa Noite my Australian comrade,
Well, they (FBI) admit to having a two year investigation on Trump ...but no surveillance? Maybe "wire tap" is outdated term and convenient term to dismiss surveillance. 
You may now list all honest politicians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 06:53
Vanuatu wrote[quote]You may now list all honest politicians.]/quote]

Ummmmm. let me see now.

Can I get back to you?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 10:38
We would not start such a list with Trump. I'm not kidding myself he's spins just as much as any of them and lies like all politicians. I have a particular dislike for Obama so everything his does pretty much is a half empty glass. So, no problem with you slamming Trump. 

As far as Merkel, I looked at that film. He seems like he didn't hear or who knows maybe needed a rest room? I can't imagine a reason to not shake her hand, maybe he wire tapped her like Obama did and she said something nasty about him!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 12:06
Come on mate!

Trump has been critical of Angela Merkel and her policies, notwithstanding that she's one of the longest serving, and popular leaders in Europe.

He sits there with his usual sulky kid facial expression, ignored Merkels request to shake hands for the cameras, and then has the un mitigated gall to say that he and Angela had  GREAT MEETING.

At the same time, his flunkies are trying to pursuade us that in fact they shook hands twice-in private of course.

Regardless of what Obama did or didn't do, Trump is an habitual, pathological LIAR!!

The Washington establishment, including members of his own political party, are treading very cautiously in the belief that he wont see out one full term, and they don't want to be brought down by his and his general behaviour.

He's not s statesman or a diplomat. He lacks understanding of the international agreements to which the USA is a signatory. His TV persona before election was that of a bully, nothings changed.

My inbred politeness, respect for you and the forum CoC prevent me for saying exactly what I feel about this man. The first word that comes to mind is RShole.

My belief that Barak Obama did a good job may be illfounded, but at least he wasn't a BLATANT LIAR.


Edited by toyomotor - 21 Mar 2017 at 12:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 22:35
I am not going to get worked up about who did or didn't shake hands, or who did or didn't bow, or whatever, and I would suggest that no one else get worked up about it either.

When Franklin D Roosevelt died, my dad, being the Republican kid he was, thought that was great until his father came down on him, saying that he should have respect for the President, as the President, even though as Republicans, our family did not agree with his policies.

I humbly suggest, especially to you, toyomotor, that political or historical figures mentioned should be addressed by their first and last name, or their title and last name, at least for the first time mentioned in a post.  First as a sign of respect, and second so that people reading this in the future will have something more than just a last name if they want to research it further.  So, it would be Chancellor Angela Merkel, or Angela Merkel, or President Trump, or Donald Trump, or if you are talking about a particular aspect of his personality, businessman Trump.  But get out of the school yard of just saying, "Trump is a liar!"  If you are going to attack him, I suggest killing with kindness, "I hearby put forth in front of you that the honorable businessman from New York is a liar.  [and give an example]"  Follow proper decorum, which may be the last thing President Trump would do, but it shows that you quarrel with his actions, not with his personality (or lack thereof).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 22:53
Remember that people reading this in the future, will not have the familiarity with this motley cast of characters that we do.  Give titles, and/or full names.  If you don't know titles or first names, okay, but give people in the future a handle, a description or something which refers to the individual, and only for last resort depend on just the last name in the entire post.  

Donald Trump does not have the precision that Barack Obama, or other politicians traditionally do.  Let's face it he is very rich (a multi-multi millionaire) and so he is probably used to being very vague, and having underlings translate his statements into something coherent.  His underlings probably can conceptualize what he "wants" better than he does himself.  Frankly, if all he wants is a gold plated escalator, he doesn't really need to get specific or have aesthetic sensitivity for that.  I would consider that at least some times, when he is called a liar, it is more a matter of him fishing with dynamite.  Saying that President Obama bugged Trump tower is an example of that.  Obama did not "wiretap" Trump tower by any stretch of the imagination, but US intelligence services monitor communications with Russia, and his short lived National Security Advisor, (General Flint??), got caught because of that.  Trump wants to know if any of his other associates got caught in the same way, basically so he could make a 'pre-emptive strike' before such news got out.  Trump has no consideration for other political or legal institutions, in his egotism, he is perfectly happy to tear them down, in order to build himself up.  For those who think he will succumb to pressure, I suggest looking at his bankruptcies.  He is durable if nothing else.


Edited by franciscosan - 21 Mar 2017 at 22:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2017 at 01:43
franciscosan wrote
Quote I humbly suggest, especially to you, toyomotor, that political or historical figures mentioned should be addressed by their first and last name, or their title and last name, at least for the first time mentioned in a post.  First as a sign of respect, and second so that people reading this in the future will have something more than just a last name if they want to research it further. 

It's impossible for me to show respect for Trump, it would also be hypocritical.

For me to do as you suggest would be showing deference to a person who I believe to be a narcissistic meglomaniac who lives in his own dream world.

I'm happy to show respect for Chancellor Merkel, and I meant no disrespect to her in my previous posts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2017 at 02:59
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Come on mate!

Trump has been critical of Angela Merkel and her policies, notwithstanding that she's one of the longest serving, and popular leaders in Europe.

Greetings!
Your opinion is safe with me but not everyone agrees with the refugee policy. Merkel admitted to pushing things and caused her people considerable distress. 
Germany, along with much of Western Europe, has four major domestic problems: (1) an unsustainable welfare state, (2) low birth rates, (3) a large and growing Muslim population that has not assimilated to Western values, and (4) a cowardly political class that will not even acknowledge that the combination of these problems is destroying Europe from within.


We are seeing the same events in a near polar opposition.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

He sits there with his usual sulky kid facial expression, ignored Merkels request to shake hands for the cameras, and then has the un mitigated gall to say that he and Angela had  GREAT MEETING.

he looked like he could not wait to leave that meeting, I don't think he has much respect for her and he made the usual pleasantries bc like all politicians, he will lie to axchieve his objectives. Lying about having a "great meeting" and lying about what started the attack of the US Embassy in Benghazi in 2012 are worlds apart. see Susan Rice, Hillary Clinton & Obama.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

At the same time, his flunkies are trying to pursuade us that in fact they shook hands twice-in private of course.

Are Merkel's flunkies denying that they shook hands privately?

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Regardless of what Obama did or didn't do, Trump is an habitual, pathological LIAR!!
Ditto Obama- and why do we not regard what Obama did or didn't do? You are comparing Trump to Obama.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

The Washington establishment, including members of his own political party, are treading very cautiously in the belief that he wont see out one full term, and they don't want to be brought down by his and his general behaviour.
The Washington establishment hates Trump. What you don't want to acknowledge is that most Americans hate the Washington establishment. Enemy of enemy..

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

He's not s statesman or a diplomat. He lacks understanding of the international agreements to which the USA is a signatory. His TV persona before election was that of a bully, nothings changed.

Over the last eight years, the world has become more unstable, more unpredictable, and more dangerous. America is no longer respected by the rest of the world, thanks to President Obama. A feckless and weak foreign policy has emboldened our enemies and undermined our allies. It will take years, if not decades, to clean up the mess this president has left behind.

Here are Obama’s 7 worst foreign policy blunders:5. Abandoning South Sudan only to witness ethnic cleansing. South Sudan was the Bush administration’s success story. After years of negotiation, President George W. Bush helped to negotiate a peace between Khartoum (Sudan) and Juba, South Sudan’s newly formed capital. Years of bloodshed had finally come to end as South Sudan became the newest country to join the world of nations. When Obama assumed office, he promised he would carry on Bush’s legacy and make sure that nascent state would go on to see successful days ahead. He lied. Comfortably ensconced in the White House, Obama began pulling U.S. assets out of South Sudan. He refused to monitor the geopolitical situation on the ground, opting instead to pivot his attention to Asia. Even when South Sudanese officials implored the Obama administration to send further assistance to the newly-formed country, the president refused. With the U.S. turning a blind eye, South Sudan began unraveling. Vice President Riek Machar of the Nuer people left the capital in Juba and formed a paramilitary force against President Salva Kiir of the Dinka people in hopes of attempting a coup. Since then, Kiir and Machar’s forces have been at each other’s throats, massacring each other’s respective peoples. Thousands of children have been forced to become child soldiers. Thousands of women have been raped by men in uniform. Thousands of people have perished in an ethnic war that doesn’t appear to ending anytime soon.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/12596/good-riddance-obamas-7-worst-foreign-policy-michael-qazvini#exit-modal

One is enough! Don't expect Obama's J-V (meaning junior varsity, [for the future] being not the best players in Obama's pointless imaginings about ISIS) approach to politics to change.

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

My inbred politeness, respect for you and the forum CoC prevent me for saying exactly what I feel about this man. The first word that comes to mind is RShole.

You are holding back? You need not do so on my account. 

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

My belief that Barak Obama did a good job may be illfounded, but at least he wasn't a BLATANT LIAR.
Except, he was a blatant liar.
1.  Americans want higher taxes
2.  Mother denied health insurance
3.  Tax restraint for middle and lower class
4.  Shovel-ready jobs
5.  Keep your doctor
6.  No lobbyists
7.  Foreign money in campaigns
8.  Arizona immigration law
9.  Transparency
10.  Constitutional oath

Just having some fun. What's the health care situation in Australia? What happens if you are bit by a dingo?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2017 at 04:21
A story that you may not remeber from 2010. Obama's flunkies tap dancing. "If you play a tune and people don't tap their feet, don't play that tune." -Count Basie
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/29/white-house-downplays-russian-agent-plot-says-obama-knew-medvedev-visit.html

The White House and the State Department both downplayed the implications of the blockbuster investigation, which revealed an elaborate Russian intelligence plot to infiltrate the U.S. government. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Tuesday that President Obama had been briefed a "number of times" before the arrests and was "fully and appropriately informed" of the investigation. 

He said Obama knew about it even before he took Russian President Dmitry Medvedev out to a Virginia burger joint last Thursday. 

Beyond that, Gibbs said the president has no "personal reaction" to the case and that the arrests should not hurt the administration's attempts to mend fences with Moscow. 

"I do not believe that this will affect the reset of our relationship with Russia," he said. 

State Department spokesman Phil Gordon went further, saying nobody should be surprised that secret Russian agents are operating in the country. He suggested the Justice Department, which announced the arrests Monday, was not on the same page as the State Department. 

"I think the timing underscores that the Department of Justice is in a different channel," Gordon said, clarifying that the timetable was "appropriate" for Justice, while State is "moving on the diplomatic issues." 

Gordon said the arrests merely show that the two countries have not yet reached the level of "trust and cooperation" where they can be completely open with one another. 

"I don't think anyone in this room is shocked to have discovered that. And so yes, you know, we're moving towards a more trusting relationship. We're beyond the Cold War. I think our relations absolutely demonstrate that. But as I say, I don't think anyone was hugely shocked to know that some vestiges of old attempts to use intelligence are still there," he said. 



The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2017 at 12:42
From what I've seen on TV News and read in the print media,I've formed opinions about Trump that obviously make me incapable of making unbiased comments about him and some of his senior administration.

On that basis, I disqualify myself from making any further posts about him.


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no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2017 at 19:41
So, forgive me for being dense here toyomotor but have you come to this conclusion bc of my pointing it out? 

Do you realize I admit the same bias myself?

Do you not have the luxury of disliking Trump?

Are your earlier posts going back 25 pages in the Dump on Trump thread also too biased for WH?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2017 at 01:23
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

So, forgive me for being dense here toyomotor but have you come to this conclusion bc of my pointing it out? 

Do you realize I admit the same bias myself?

Do you not have the luxury of disliking Trump?

Are your earlier posts going back 25 pages in the Dump on Trump thread also too biased for WH?

1. I don't think so. I didn't want to be deliberately antagonistic because I detected early that you leaned Mr. Trumps way.

2. I don't think you deliberately declare any bias, but your opinions speak for themselves, and tha's OK.

3. Yes, I have the luxury of disliking the man, but I didn't see much future in labouring the point and appearing to spam you.

4. Whether or not the sum of my posts is greater than the result Wink is for others to decide. I've made my opinions clear, but decided to leave the conversation.

In my role as a Mod, I think I have to act in an unbiased manner when deciding whether or not posts made by others go too far, and so I have also to apply some rules on myself.

I disagree with what you say, but will defend etc. etc.
Once you eliminate the impossible,
whatever remains,
no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2017 at 01:39
no, you can't disqualify yourself, you can stop posting on this thread, but you can't disqualify yourself.
_I_ say so.  :P  :)
I would suggest that if you think the thread is going in a direction where you may need to step in, then bow out at that time.  But until that comes up, don't worry about it, that can come up in any thread.

But go for less emotional knee-jerk reaction (to Trump), and more reasoned analysis, sure he is a liar, so whatofit?  When lies are transparent (are they even lies when nobody is possibly fooled?), it is more important to know the how and the why of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2017 at 05:59
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

no, you can't disqualify yourself, you can stop posting on this thread, but you can't disqualify yourself.
_I_ say so.  :P  :)
I would suggest that if you think the thread is going in a direction where you may need to step in, then bow out at that time.  But until that comes up, don't worry about it, that can come up in any thread.

But go for less emotional knee-jerk reaction (to Trump), and more reasoned analysis, sure he is a liar, so whatofit?  When lies are transparent (are they even lies when nobody is possibly fooled?), it is more important to know the how and the why of them.

I'm sorry franciscosan, I should have realised that I would need your permission. LOL

It's not that I think the thread is going in the wrong direction, it's that I don't want to antagonise Vanuatu who is obviously a Donald Trump supporter.

I don't think my reactions have been knee jerk, I get angry at his continual lies, alternative facts and what I see as misuse of power, by attacking judges etc. I basically agree with some of his policies, like America should decide who enters the country, like his stated aims on the economy and on business. If he concentrated on these instead of lies and false accusations, I wouldn't have anything to grumble about.

I would really like to know what goes in inside his brain, why he acts the way he does. I admit to being old fashioned when it comes to how I believe that people should behave, especially people in positions of power and responsibility.

My avatar is from a British TV Comedy program called "One foot in the Grave", the main character of which is just a grumpy old bugger, and I found it appropriate.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2017 at 21:39
Oh, Vanuatu, oh Vanuatu!  Doesn't Vanuatu's national anthem go like that?  But, don't let the name fool you, no man or woman is an island, and neither is our Vanuatu.

But I think Vanuatu is having fun, she is feisty and enjoying the game, but understand that you might not want to get her mad and ruin her being your PA, but how is she going to learn, or maybe how are you going to learn, if you don't engage?  Me, I already know the Truth with a capital t, I am an enlightened one Saint  even though sometimes it might look like I am an incomplete idiot.  It is just a rouse designed to trick mere mortals into a false sense of complacency.  (I'm a legend in my own mindWink)  

Obviously there are a lot of Donald Trump supporters that will have a falling out with their hero, we know that because at the beginning there were a lot of Bill Clinton supporters, and George W Bush supporters, and Barack Obama supporters that became disenchanted with them.  So the fact that Vanuatu is a Trump supporter in general, doesn't mean that she agrees with everything he does, and she may come to believe that the glass is half empty rather than half full.  If you want to help her and others have a more sophisticated view of Trump, then you have to use a scalpel rather than a mallet, you need to target particular aspects and critique them showing the flaws, of course, you don't "need" that,  you only need that if you are going to win over anyone.  You can still voice frustration, and maybe you have a point at that, but I think you should approach it will a more positive, constructive angle.  There is a lot of frustration about President Trump, but all you will be doing is adding to the background murmur, if you can it is better to add a little more light than heat to the situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Windemere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 11:32
In regards to the nepotism issue, from what I've seen throughout my life, almost all politicians engage in nepotism, and do all they can to advance the interest of their relatives. It's actually become a hallmark of local government, at least in my own community.  But they do it furtively, indirectly, and try to keep it out of the public view. Trump is doing it openly. It's reprehensible, but it's nothing especially new. If it must be done at all, it might as well be out in the open.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 12:22
Originally posted by Windemere Windemere wrote:

In regards to the nepotism issue, from what I've seen throughout my life, almost all politicians engage in nepotism, and do all they can to advance the interest of their relatives. It's actually become a hallmark of local government, at least in my own community.  But they do it furtively, indirectly, and try to keep it out of the public view. Trump is doing it openly. It's reprehensible, but it's nothing especially new. If it must be done at all, it might as well be out in the open.

Windemere

I agree. My feeling is that he's thumbing his nose at the electorate, teling it he will do as he pleases, and damn the normal rules and conventions.

But, I didn't mention his name in my post.Wink

Good to hear from you again.


Edited by toyomotor - 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11
Once you eliminate the impossible,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 14:24
Trump is used to being the top dog via his business experience, and the scale of his business means he has always had a great deal of power and influnce. It seems to me he rather assumed he was going to fulfil the same experience on a political level at the helm of a super-world, and his behaviour gives him away. Of course I'm no expert on American society at all (actually it's largely a mystery to me how it all functions, but that's because I don't know any better), but I do understrand that the American Presidency is not an absolute tyranny or even a post with overriding executive powers. There are checks and balances built into the American system which sensibly limit the potential excesses. Trump has already discovered this. I did think the security services were going to teach him that lesson, it turned out to be the judicial branch of American government instead.

Edited by caldrail - 24 Mar 2017 at 14:25
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 10:33
And now he's been slapped down by the Republican Party, which refused to vote in his favour in relation to the abolition of Obama Care. But, Trump, being Trump, is blaming the Democrats. 

He was sunk by his own party.


Edited by toyomotor - 25 Mar 2017 at 10:38
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