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Trump and the domestic arena

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 00:16
Did they need to mention Trump?  Pretty obvious to everyone.  But, I think their point is the behavior, not necessarily the man (although Trump is his nature is confrontational and antagonistic).  Face it, he believes that he's a predator, which means you are either another predator to him or prey.  I do not see either George W Bush or Barack Obama being dualistic like that, at least not to that extent.  Former Presidents do not criticize sitting Presidents, and technically they have not, technically.  Former Presidents tend to get along with each other, they share a common experience, but I cannot really see Donald Trump joining that club.

There is a lot of "loyal opposition" in Congress, and so forth.  That is quite different from "the politics of division."  It is one thing to defeat your opponent, it is another thing to salt the Earth and poison the wells afterwards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 00:12
Quote Donald Trump slammed by Republicans Bob Corker and Jeff Flake for his 'disregard of truth'-from http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-25/donald-trump-trades-insults-with-republican-senator-bob-corker/9082388

It seems that Trump has finally lost the confidence of his Republican Party colleagues, at least two of them, while none of the others are rushing to his defence.

Quote Senator Corker, who is not seeking re-election next year, accused the President of telling falsehoods that could easily be proven wrong and of wilfully damaging the country's standing in the world, exposing deepening divisions in the Republican Party under Mr Trump's White House.

And he's correct. Trump is not regarded, I don't think, as a truthful or even a rational man.

Quote Shortly after, Mr Trump was also attacked in a dramatic speech on the Senate floor by Republican Jeff Flake, who said American politics had become inured to "reckless, outrageous and undignified" behaviour from the White House.

Also true. And his supporters can't explain it all away as "false truths" or enemy attacks. Even supporters must ackowledge the truth in the comments made by Corker and Flake. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2017 at 23:02
People like to call Donald Trump a liar, but technically that is not accurate, as a commentator on CNN (and others) have pointed out.  A liar is someone who tells falsehoods but knows the difference between what is true and what is false.  Donald Trump cannot tell the difference between what is true and false, and frankly does not care.  In fact, he is a solipsist, a narcissist who (conventionally) believes what ever he says, because he is saying it with emphasis.  Again Donald Trump does not know the difference between truth and falsity, and does not really care as long as what he says serves his purposes, which ultimately is, number 1, himself.

FDR probably lied to get the US into World War II, Reagan probably lied in the arms for hostages deal, and Bill Clinton lied because he couldn't keep his pants on.  I would say that FDR and Clinton knew the difference, and if Reagan didn't then at that time it probably wasn't his fault (but Alzheimer's).  Bill Clinton's reason for lying is probably more noble than what Trump does, all the time.  But, he can't help it, he is truth-challenged.....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 02:51
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

People like to call Donald Trump a liar, but technically that is not accurate, as a commentator on CNN (and others) have pointed out.  A liar is someone who tells falsehoods but knows the difference between what is true and what is false.  Donald Trump cannot tell the difference between what is true and false, and frankly does not care.  In fact, he is a solipsist, a narcissist who (conventionally) believes what ever he says, because he is saying it with emphasis.  Again Donald Trump does not know the difference between truth and falsity, and does not really care as long as what he says serves his purposes, which ultimately is, number 1, himself.

FDR probably lied to get the US into World War II, Reagan probably lied in the arms for hostages deal, and Bill Clinton lied because he couldn't keep his pants on.  I would say that FDR and Clinton knew the difference, and if Reagan didn't then at that time it probably wasn't his fault (but Alzheimer's).  Bill Clinton's reason for lying is probably more noble than what Trump does, all the time.  But, he can't help it, he is truth-challenged.....



More media analysis lol. You guys need a podcast.

First, R's who have always hated Trump give us more reasons why they hate him. Stunning! Cornyn's dossier is no hard core proof, the FBI has a bit to answer for tho. And of course Hillary did more than eat the Yellow Cake.
The other Flake wants to sell more books c'mon lets hate on Trump because we are models of sincere genuine and inspired public service. LOL

It depends on what the meaning of "Know" is  Trump knows he can swap DACA for a Wall & continues turn ISIS out of Syria & Iraq on their collective asses while USMC is waiting for them in Africa.

ShockedBut lets hear more about what he said..or did she say that? OMG! IMPEACHMENT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 02:54
[quote] IMPEACHMENT![/quote

Ah, now there's a word I'd like to hear more often.Wink


Edited by toyomotor - 26 Oct 2017 at 02:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Oct 2017 at 03:06
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

[quote] IMPEACHMENT![/quote

Ah, now there's a word I'd like to hear more often.Wink

Why? Does CNN skip the part about ISIS? Oh right it's Obama that deserves credit not Trump turning the battle over to the generals. Oh and ARMING the KURDS.

US left the Kurds hanging so many times & OBAMA did TOO!

Now they are kicking ass!

Wasn't that on CNN?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 01:43
I don't know I don't watch CNN, except when looking over my dear old mother's shoulder.  There is a legal process that is unfolding, that President Trump would love to stop, not because it is "fake news" (let's be honest, he doesn't care about whether news is fake or not, he cares about whether it strokes him or not), but because it might trip him up, more than the stumbling he is doing already.  I am not "for" an impeachment, if the high crimes and misdemeanors are sufficient, and showed to be sufficient by an FBI investigation that runs its course, then it will take care of itself.  I believe that if the evidence is egregious enough, the Senate will have to act, of course that might mean the Republicans loosing control of the Senate, but the question is how far do Republicans want to go for a carpet-bagger who likes nothing more than insulting them?  I don't understand why people like such a vile, petty man, maybe it makes them feel about their own moral failings, maybe he supports their own inclinations to viciousness.  I mean even if the mainstream media is egregiously biased (it is biased but not egregious), then how do you account for what comes out of Donald's own mouth?

Democrats lost Congress, the Presidency and the Governorships by wedding themselves too much to Barack Obama, Trump may mean the downfall of the Republicans for the foreseeable future.  Or maybe Trump will exceed that limitation and mean the downfall of America in general.  But I am sure there are some people in Russia, etc, who believe that Stalin, Hitler, Franco was a great guy.  Not that I believe that Trump is _that_ bad, but undoubtedly he has *potential*.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 02:55
Sorry it is like being from another planet. I disagree with nearly everything you say about Trump. 
And I'm starting to feel sorry for you.
Cheer Up. :)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 03:54
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Sorry it is like being from another planet. I disagree with nearly everything you say about Trump. 
And I'm starting to feel sorry for you.
Cheer Up. :)

Vive la difference!

You see, it all began when we allowed women to vote.

Sometimes it's fun to play Devils Advocate, or simply stir the pot.Wink


Edited by toyomotor - 28 Oct 2017 at 03:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2017 at 07:31
Franciscosan

That President Trump has supporters within the American electorate cannot be denied.

But, I wonder if his support is based upon;

a. Widespread disillusionment with what are seen as "traditional" politicians, snouts in the trough, doing dodgy deals to benefit themselves or associates, rorting the system at every turn; or

b. Actually liking the man and what he represents.

If the answer to a. is correct, then I can share their disillusionment. Politicians rank right down there with snake oil salesmen, used car salesmen and lawyers.

If b. is the correct response, then I can only have pity on the USA.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2017 at 00:56
Originally in the US, only men had the vote (over the age of 21).  This actually makes a certain amount of sense if you believe that society is founded on the family.  Therefore, each family would have 1 vote, from the (male) head of the household.  Boys, when they turned into men, would move out of the house to (ideally) found their own families.  Girls, if they were not married off, would stay at home.  So therefore, if only men voted, each household would (ideally) have one vote.  If you decided that women got the vote, in a normal family you would have at least 2 votes (it would be assumed that the woman would vote with the man), and perhaps more.  So one notion of fairness (giving women the vote), made things unfair in other ways.  Maybe that is progress, but it is also unreasonable to think that there is not a cost.

But Donald Trump is not carefully weighing the advantages and disadvantages of progress throughout the years, he is just disgruntled, lashing out at the "liberal" establishment, which includes a lot of people who are rather conservative, but don't want to kiss his backside.

Have you ever met someone who is "gruntled"?  If you can't have someone who is "gruntled," How is it that you can have someone who is "disgruntled"? 


Edited by franciscosan - 30 Oct 2017 at 01:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 2017 at 04:12
Franciscosan

1. I was only joking about women getting the vote. It's a fairly common saying among my generation.

2. Why couldn't they be "ungruntled?"Wink




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 00:46
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Franciscosan

That President Trump has supporters within the American electorate cannot be denied.

But, I wonder if his support is based upon;

a. Widespread disillusionment with what are seen as "traditional" politicians, snouts in the trough, doing dodgy deals to benefit themselves or associates, rorting the system at every turn; or

b. Actually liking the man and what he represents.

If the answer to a. is correct, then I can share their disillusionment. Politicians rank right down there with snake oil salesmen, used car salesmen and lawyers.

If b. is the correct response, then I can only have pity on the USA.



It's both and there is no problem for me liking Trump these days. I do understand how Never Trumpers feel tho. 8 years of Obama ulcer and it feels good to feel different. 
I have pity on Australia, why did it take so long to figure out how inhumane the gov of Australia was to the Aborigines ? No acknowledgement until 2008? You people simple?

Sounds pretty backwards but I love it that US can take your shots and give you something to aspire to. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 00:57
Quote I have pity on Australia, why did it take so long to figure out how inhumane the gov of Australia was to the Aborigines ? No acknowledgement until 2008? You people simple?

Sounds pretty backwards but I love it that US can take your shots and give you something to aspire to. Wink
1. The Australian government has progressed over the decades, and obviously the attitude towards our indigenous people has changed. It was the first arrivals, the English who killed Aborigines and displaced them. 2008? Aboriginal rights are changing every year.

2. No, not taking shots at the USA, just at DJR, who's having a run of bad luck. Ex campaign staffer charged with money laundering etc. Supreme Court puts on hold moves to exclude transgenders from military, Congress not doing away with Obamacare. But who am I to talk? Our own parliament is in turmoil still over the dual citizenship stuff.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 01:20
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote I have pity on Australia, why did it take so long to figure out how inhumane the gov of Australia was to the Aborigines ? No acknowledgement until 2008? You people simple?

Sounds pretty backwards but I love it that US can take your shots and give you something to aspire to. Wink
1. The Australian government has progressed over the decades, and obviously the attitude towards our indigenous people has changed. It was the first arrivals, the English who killed Aborigines and displaced them. 2008? Aboriginal rights are changing every year.

2. No, not taking shots at the USA, just at DJR, who's having a run of bad luck. Ex campaign staffer charged with money laundering etc. Supreme Court puts on hold moves to exclude transgenders from military, Congress not doing away with Obamacare. But who am I to talk? Our own parliament is in turmoil still over the dual citizenship stuff.Confused

Yes toyomotor, 2008 the Australian gov made it's official apology 1973 finally ended their breeding program to "breed out the black." Nothing against you or any individual just , glass houses man like all the other cheap shots at US, the standards are usually worse elsewhere.  

DJT having bad luck is your spin.

FBI never told candidate Trump that his campaign manager Paul Manifort was under surveillance and FISA warrant but as soon as Trump was elected it was LEAKED. A sealed indictment used for political gain. 
Trump is a RESULT not a CAUSE. We had horrible former POTUS and we had and his horrible possible replacement and Trump was the High Road. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 03:39
Vanuatu

Quote Yes toyomotor, 2008 the Australian gov made it's official apology 1973 finally ended their breeding program to "breed out the black."

No such "breeding" program has ever existed. Where in the name of hell did you get that from?

Quote DJT having bad luck is your spin.

Well, you could hardly call it good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 12:49
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

Quote Yes toyomotor, 2008 the Australian gov made it's official apology 1973 finally ended their breeding program to "breed out the black."

No such "breeding" program has ever existed. Where in the name of hell did you get that from?

Quote DJT having bad luck is your spin.

Well, you could hardly call it good luck.

Good Luck press looks as idiotic as ever. Settled in Peace Indeed! Read the study-or the hundreds and hundreds of articles online.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10314610208596220

IN AUSTRALIA between the wars, 'breeding out the colour' was propounded as a solution to the 'half-caste problem'. It was a perverse proposition. The supposed problems deriving from miscegenation between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians would be remedied by instituting still more comprehensive regimes of miscegenation. 

But now miscegenation would be managed. And the perversity of absorption did not end there. It was a nationalist project, aspiring to keep Australia white; but it flew in the face of commonly understood notions of White Australia as a doctrine of racial purity. Absorption was intensely racist, but at the same time defied prevalent racist assumptions of 'hybrid inferiority' and demands for the segregation of 'half-castes'. 

It was in certain respects a eugenist strategy, but in others clashed with eugenic principles. Absorption held a component of humanitarian welfarism; it also evinced a profound disdain for the subjects of its welfare interventions, a disdain that could extend to the attempted eradication of all vestiges of Aboriginality. This article explores these multiple and conflicting dimensions of schemes to 'breed out the colour' in the inter-war years.1 

For all its myriad inspirations and aspirations, 'breeding out the colour' was above all just that: a stratagem to erase 'colour', to bleach Australia white through programs of regulated reproduction. So committed were its proponents to the process of whitening that one could imagine that they took whiteness as an end in itself, a taken-for-granted good. Perhaps they did. Whiteness was a potent signifier: of virtue, of racial superiority, above all-in this context, of national membership. 

Breeding the colour out of persons of Aboriginal descent was equally a process of breeding them into the community of the nation. Interwar programs of biological absorption should be understood, I argue, in the context of a strongly ethnic conception of Australian nationhood, whereby myths of blood kinship and notions of an organic community of sentiment and values provided a core of national cohesion. Beyond that, I also consider several issues highlighted in the recent historiography of absorption, including its connections with eugenics and whether it manifested genocidal intent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 13:29
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

Quote Yes toyomotor, 2008 the Australian gov made it's official apology 1973 finally ended their breeding program to "breed out the black."

No such "breeding" program has ever existed. Where in the name of hell did you get that from?

Quote DJT having bad luck is your spin.

Well, you could hardly call it good luck.

Good Luck press looks as idiotic as ever. Settled in Peace Indeed! Read the study-or the hundreds and hundreds of articles online.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10314610208596220

IN AUSTRALIA between the wars, 'breeding out the colour' was propounded as a solution to the 'half-caste problem'. It was a perverse proposition. The supposed problems deriving from miscegenation between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians would be remedied by instituting still more comprehensive regimes of miscegenation. 

But now miscegenation would be managed. And the perversity of absorption did not end there. It was a nationalist project, aspiring to keep Australia white; but it flew in the face of commonly understood notions of White Australia as a doctrine of racial purity. Absorption was intensely racist, but at the same time defied prevalent racist assumptions of 'hybrid inferiority' and demands for the segregation of 'half-castes'. 

It was in certain respects a eugenist strategy, but in others clashed with eugenic principles. Absorption held a component of humanitarian welfarism; it also evinced a profound disdain for the subjects of its welfare interventions, a disdain that could extend to the attempted eradication of all vestiges of Aboriginality. This article explores these multiple and conflicting dimensions of schemes to 'breed out the colour' in the inter-war years.1 

For all its myriad inspirations and aspirations, 'breeding out the colour' was above all just that: a stratagem to erase 'colour', to bleach Australia white through programs of regulated reproduction. So committed were its proponents to the process of whitening that one could imagine that they took whiteness as an end in itself, a taken-for-granted good. Perhaps they did. Whiteness was a potent signifier: of virtue, of racial superiority, above all-in this context, of national membership. 

Breeding the colour out of persons of Aboriginal descent was equally a process of breeding them into the community of the nation. Interwar programs of biological absorption should be understood, I argue, in the context of a strongly ethnic conception of Australian nationhood, whereby myths of blood kinship and notions of an organic community of sentiment and values provided a core of national cohesion. Beyond that, I also consider several issues highlighted in the recent historiography of absorption, including its connections with eugenics and whether it manifested genocidal intent.

I think you may be confusing this with the White Australia Policy, which prohibited immigrtion by people of colour, including so-called Cape Coloured from South Africa. This was repealed in the 1950's.

There was no breeding program!!!

Moves were put in place to bring Aboriginal children in from the far away places, closer to the towns so that they could be exposed to education and better health outcomes. This was what activists are now calling the Stolen Generation. Misguided? Perhaps, but well intentioned nevertheless.

Many of these children remained in the white community, and eventually married into the white population. This was not done at government behest or as a part of any government program. These marriages resulted in what you call the half castes, some of whom rose to high government office or to the professions.

What you are suggesting is outright racism which is not that prevalent in Australia.

A girl in my class in high school was from cape Barron Island, traditional Aboriginal country. There was no education facility for her on the island, so she boarded in the city during the week, attending a white High School. She certainly was not treated badly by fellow students, staff or teachers.

Only my good  breeding prevents me from saying your post is a load of racist crap, probably authored by Aboriginal activists or their supporters who are never afraid to embellish the truth.

As for apologies these have been reiterated over the years and successive governments have put programs in place to help with Aboriginal education, housing and health. Remember that some of these nomadic people are hard to locate, and the few that live in static communities sometimes have no school in their village due to lack of numbers. In these cases, Aborigines and white children from remote areas usually have "School of The Air"-two way radio tuition for Primary School and then travel to the cities or larger towns for Secondary education.

Now let's talk about the mass murder and attempted genocide of indigenous Americans, their mass dislocation from traditional lands, deliberate starving and having no rights. Let's talk about the racism still directed against those people by the broader community.Angry


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 14:07
Quote Now let's talk about the mass murder and attempted genocide of indigenous Americans, their mass dislocation from traditional lands, deliberate starving and having no rights. Let's talk about the racism still directed against those people by the broader community.Angry

Ok let's talk about it. I'm not in denial or confused about anything. Europeans in Australia were racists like most people of the time. In between wars the government programs that selected light skinned or half caste aboriginal children, took them from their homes hoping they would breed with whites and lighten the complexion of the continent. 

Stop saying they had good intentions, stop saying it was somehow any- thing other than ignorance, racism and hegemony.

You deny it, don't dare read about it -just stay stuck in the faux history.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 14:15
Quote Many of these children remained in the white community, and eventually married into the white population.
Lucky half caste gets to marry white fella, I'm sure it was exactly what the Aborigines always wanted.

Quote This was not done at government behest or as a part of any government program. These marriages resulted in what you call the half castes, some of whom rose to high government office or to the professions.

YES IT WAS A GOVERNMENT PROGRAM! 

In 1937, the chief protector of Aboriginals in Western Australia, A. O. Neville, a man generally recognized as a decent, progressive bureaucrat but who nevertheless believed in “breeding out the color” (commonly called “[expletive deleted] them white”), spoke at the first national governmental conference on Aboriginals, an occasion Robert Marine, associate professor of politics at La Trobe University, Victoria, has described as “a terrible moment in the history of the 20th-century Australian state.”

At the conference, Neville asked: “Are we going to have a population of one million blacks in the Commonwealth or are we going to merge them into our white community and eventually forget that there were any Aborigines in Australia?” The key resolution at the conference, “The Destiny of the Race,” passed unanimously, called for the total absorption into the white community of all non-full-blood Aborigines. Taking part-Aboriginal children from their mothers and families by force was part of this ambition. Over the years, various regulations had been invoked to make this possible.


Quote What you are suggesting is outright racism which is not that prevalent in Australia.
Oh right,  like being 'not that Pregnant?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 15:17
No problem discussing any of the horrid things my country did in the past or at present. 

All the Colonial and European treatment of indigenous people was essentially horrific.

Why do you deny this? You don't trust sources? OK, it's all just a big story that never happened in Australia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 00:34
I leave you two alone for a little while and you totally go off the rails,  I am sure your sidetrack is fascinating, but it seems quite of the topic, congratulations Vanuatu! you have distracted this thread from what it was really for, discussing President Trump and his domestic agenda.  Donald Trump is a master of distraction.  If you can't dazzle them with brilliance....

The media has said that Trump is having a bad week, with the FBI coming out with indictments on two advisors, and with another advisor pleading guilty.  I think if reports say that Trump is fuming, then he is fuming, and having a bad day.

CNN has a new ad that shows an apple and says whether you are on the left or the right, it is an apple.  In other words, what they do is report the facts, and if you want to call it a banana, you can, but it still will be an apple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 01:37
I mean don't get me wrong, I am all for tangents, as long as they come back to the topic.  I suggest finding the thread on whether the treatment of American Indians was genocide, and adding to that, discussing the treatment of aboriginals.  But it is a distraction away from the topic of Donald Trump, a distraction that Trump would welcome because it draws away from issues both moral and political that involve him.  What is it?  drawing attention to the mote in another's eye when there is a beam in yours?  I am talking on an individual level here.  I think that only someone solidly amoral (in fact, like Trump) would not find Trump's past behavior "morally dubious," so to speak.  Furthermore, the tiger has his stripes, and it is unimaginable that that behavior would change.  Fans of Donald Trump criticize the media, but the concern regarding Trump is about _his_ immorality, incivility, and disregard of the constitution.  The media might not "like" Trump, but the media is made up of individuals, who generally are moral, aware and concerned about politics.  Their interests are sincere, and generally authentic, Trump's are generally self-serving and, indeed, solipsistic.  If Donald Trump explodes, it won't be the media that did it, but Trump's own volatile personality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 03:31
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I leave you two alone for a little while and you totally go off the rails,  I am sure your sidetrack is fascinating, but it seems quite of the topic, congratulations Vanuatu! you have distracted this thread from what it was really for, discussing President Trump and his domestic agenda.  Donald Trump is a master of distraction.  If you can't dazzle them with brilliance....

The media has said that Trump is having a bad week, with the FBI coming out with indictments on two advisors, and with another advisor pleading guilty.  I think if reports say that Trump is fuming, then he is fuming, and having a bad day.

CNN has a new ad that shows an apple and says whether you are on the left or the right, it is an apple.  In other words, what they do is report the facts, and if you want to call it a banana, you can, but it still will be an apple.

You're quire right. We badly need adult supervision.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 13:26
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I leave you two alone for a little while and you totally go off the rails,  I am sure your sidetrack is fascinating, but it seems quite of the topic, congratulations Vanuatu! you have distracted this thread from what it was really for, discussing President Trump and his domestic agenda.  Donald Trump is a master of distraction.  If you can't dazzle them with brilliance....

The media has said that Trump is having a bad week, with the FBI coming out with indictments on two advisors, and with another advisor pleading guilty.  I think if reports say that Trump is fuming, then he is fuming, and having a bad day.

CNN has a new ad that shows an apple and says whether you are on the left or the right, it is an apple.  In other words, what they do is report the facts, and if you want to call it a banana, you can, but it still will be an apple.

You can't stay on topic, can't even stay in the realm of reason.
Not a bad week, seeing FBI, Democrats and Never Trumpers quite clearly that is beneficial.
Reports from CNN ha! might as well watch SNL or Ellen.
yea take banana and....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 13:32
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I mean don't get me wrong, I am all for tangents, as long as they come back to the topic.  I suggest finding the thread on whether the treatment of American Indians was genocide, and adding to that, discussing the treatment of aboriginals.  But it is a distraction away from the topic of Donald Trump, a distraction that Trump would welcome because it draws away from issues both moral and political that involve him.  What is it?  drawing attention to the mote in another's eye when there is a beam in yours?  I am talking on an individual level here.  I think that only someone solidly amoral (in fact, like Trump) would not find Trump's past behavior "morally dubious," so to speak.  Furthermore, the tiger has his stripes, and it is unimaginable that that behavior would change.  Fans of Donald Trump criticize the media, but the concern regarding Trump is about _his_ immorality, incivility, and disregard of the constitution.  The media might not "like" Trump, but the media is made up of individuals, who generally are moral, aware and concerned about politics.  Their interests are sincere, and generally authentic, Trump's are generally self-serving and, indeed, solipsistic.  If Donald Trump explodes, it won't be the media that did it, but Trump's own volatile personality.

I suggest you follow your advice. 
Curious, fransicosan. Your lines of inquiry rarely intersect. You make blanket statements provide no proof other than your BELIEF and continue to call it something accurate. 

I like what Trump is doing. Morally dubious. Same to you & your media lunatics. Trump's immorality I can live with. Obama, Hillary's and I guess yours is nauseating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2017 at 21:00
Yes, apparently you can live with it, or think you can.  But isn't that always true with wanna-be tyrants, you can live with them until you cannot?  You may not believe he is a wanna-be tyrant, but surely you recognize that others very much have that concern.  You may poo-poo their fears, but that doesn't do anything to comfort and allay them.  Donald Trump is not interested in allaying fears, he is interested in dialing things up, rather than dial them down.  But if you want to blame it all on the media, I guess that is your prerogative, your distortion.  Donald is a white hat, boy scout, who has always treated women decently, never had a bankruptcy, never run his company into the ground while taking a $49 million dollar salary, he never verbally abused war heroes like John McCann, little old ladies like Barbara Bush, all the other Republican candidates, news media figures, never traded his old wives for newer models, because they had the audacity to get pregnant.  He is not a despicable human being, he is the new messiah, and if you forget that you are un-American and an apostate and deserve to be burned at the stake, is that your view, Vanuatu?  Sometimes I wonder.  You declare me immoral, and maybe in that upside down world I am a demon, but probably not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2017 at 00:44
Once you eliminate the impossible,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 21:28
I am not sure about the clever title, "faux paupulism," much of what the media describes as blunders are what appeal to his base.  In the election, the critics were said to treat Donald Trump, literally, not seriously, whereas his base treated him seriously, but not literally.  I think his base thinks that Trump's heart is in the right place, and if everybody would just get on board, wonderful things could happen.  In these stupid fights he gets himself into, they sympathize with him and wonder why people are resisting him.  I am not really sure how they exactly look at the media.  The mainstream is biased towards the right, but that just means that one has to be a more savvy reader of it, not just throw the baby out with the bathwater.  I am not really sure that Trump is on the right anyways, someone who hung out at Club 54 in the '70s, is not exactly a conservative.  But maybe that is part of the appeal, people on the right who have been marginalized are getting a seat at the table.  Trump is not a true conservative, but he wears the conservative patch on his shoulder, and being famously shallow, that patch is good enough for many.

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