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Trump and the domestic arena

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2017 at 21:05
The fact that Trump has mocked John McCain is old news, I doubt that McCain's opposition to the recent Republican healthcare "attempts" was payback, more like cautious (and clear?) thinking.  But, Trump is famous for being hard on his "friends" or "allies" or potential friends and allies.  One can wonder if McCain's reaction would be different if Trump wasn't such a rump, as in ass.

Well, one doesn't necessarily know that Trump's new proposals will benefit Trump, because he hasn't revealed his tax returns.  But, yes, remember that Donald Trump thinks that there are two types of people, "predators" and (I assume,) prey.  One doesn't have to guess which category he feels that he is in.  Assuming this dichotomy, one has to imagine that a lot of people he would consider a mark (Carny term), voted for him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2017 at 01:54
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

The fact that Trump has mocked John McCain is old news, I doubt that McCain's opposition to the recent Republican healthcare "attempts" was payback, more like cautious (and clear?) thinking.  But, Trump is famous for being hard on his "friends" or "allies" or potential friends and allies.  One can wonder if McCain's reaction would be different if Trump wasn't such a rump, as in ass.

Well, one doesn't necessarily know that Trump's new proposals will benefit Trump, because he hasn't revealed his tax returns.  But, yes, remember that Donald Trump thinks that there are two types of people, "predators" and (I assume,) prey.  One doesn't have to guess which category he feels that he is in.  Assuming this dichotomy, one has to imagine that a lot of people he would consider a mark (Carny term), voted for him.

NOTHING can excuse his making fun of an ex-POW's war caused disabilities.

NOTHING!

As far as I'm concerned, it only goes to prove what an a**hole he really is.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2017 at 14:16
Quote from New York Times 30 Sep 2017-
  • Tom Price, the health and human services secretary, resigned under pressure after racking up at least $400,000 in travel bills.
  • Mr. Price’s decision came just hours after President Trump publicly dressed him down for the second time in a week.
During the Election Campaign, Trump promised, if elected, to surround himself with the best people in the country.

Well, he obviously didn't. Price has been in office only a few months, and has racked up nearly half a million dollars in travel bills. Talk about pigs with their snouts in the trough.

But he's not the only failure in Trump's selection process, not by a long chalk. So many in fact that I won't bother enumerating them.

The bottom line is that Trump is not capable of providing the political management and oversight needed in his position. His habit of firing people, willy nilly, doesn't provide for a settled working atmosphere. Government by Twitter is childish.

AND he's yet to survive the current investigation into his alleged Russian links. If he does, he should then be looked at for his blatant attempt to relax taxation rules for the rich and famous, as he and his companies will be major beneficiaries if the legislation is passed.
Quote NYT same date.

Wealthy Benefit Most in G.O.P. Tax Plan, Report Says

By ALAN RAPPEPORT

The first detailed assessment of the tax plan found that the average tax bill would fall by $1,600, or 2.1 percent, in 2018. But the biggest drop would go to those with incomes above $730,000.


J.Edgar Hoover would roll over in his grave.





Edited by toyomotor - 01 Oct 2017 at 02:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2017 at 23:01
toyomotor,
McCain is a hero of mine, but I understand why Trump did what he did, during the campaign and now.  The Republicans are held hostage by the religious right, and they didn't like McCain, because he would kowtow to them by wearing his religion on their sleeve.  Therefore, they sat on their hands and let Obama be elected (oh, yeah, some were enthusiastic about Palin, the fifth wheel, but she was as much a liability on his campaign for some as she was an advantage to it by others).  But because McCain didn't cater to the religious right, they don't like him, which is why Donald Trump chose to pick a fight with him, so he could stick his tongue up the religious right's fundament, and give it a good feltching.  In response, they have paid him handsomely.  But, they forget that there is a familiar pattern with the religious right, expecting a lot from their candidate, and being disappointed.  Shall we say, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, George W. Bush.  Of course, all candidates have to profess a belief in God, and generally that means a standard Protestant God, Al Smith(?), JFK, Barry Goldwater and Mitt Romney being exceptions.  Barack Obama was religiously fringe, but people didn't look too closely at that, plus McCain did not want to use his religion, and his community activism against him.  That also merits Trump's disrespect, McCain had standards, which no one would ever accuse Trump of having, and so he (McCain) wouldn't do, "whatever it takes"!  
I have seen McCain in person on three occasions and I have never bothered to shake his hand, because while I think he is great, I didn't have anything particular to thank him for.  But, if I met him again, I would thank him for running a clean campaign, which George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush and Donald Trump did not do.  In 1999, when McCain was running against George W, McCain won New Hampshire, and then the contest went to South Carolina, where a rumor went around that McCain's adopted Bangladeshi daughter was a secret love child of McCain and a black prostitute.  McCain lost in SC and lost the momentum, and W. Bush won the nomination and the Presidency.  So racism was used against McCain, and so he didn't want to use Obama's participation in Black church, in Black community activism efforts against Obama.  George H. W. Bush used the Willy Horton ads against Dukakis, kind of the specter of black violence to scare the little ol' grannies.  Trump didn't get directly racial, just generally obnoxious, concerning everything.  How can one honestly claim that, say, the birther issue was racist, when everything Trump does is obnoxious.

A fair number of disabled veterans go into politics, they cannot handle physical labor but they still have their mental capacities, and the disability shows their loyalty to the country, and to some extent their team spirit.  Not only is John McCain an example of this, but Republican 2004 nominee Bob Dole was crippled in one arm.  There is a democratic woman in Congress (House??) now who survived a (very) hard landing in a copter in Desert Storm. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 02:25
Franciscosan  wrote
Quote but I understand why Trump did what he did, during the campaign and now.

So do I, but it's not printable in this forum!

Quote A fair number of disabled veterans go into politics, they cannot handle physical labor but they still have their mental capacities, and the disability shows their loyalty to the country, and to some extent their team spirit.  Not only is John McCain an example of this, but Republican 2004 nominee Bob Dole was crippled in one arm.  There is a democratic woman in Congress (House??) now who survived a (very) hard landing in a copter in Desert Storm.

Forget politics for a moment-people who enlist in the Armed Forces do so knowing that they will be, at some time in their career, placed in harms way. That many return from active service physically or mentally disabled is, in itself a tragedy, but to have your President mock you in public over those same injuries is simply and totally unacceptable.


Edited by toyomotor - 02 Oct 2017 at 00:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 14:55
Trump was elected bc he was preferable to Hillary Clinton. 

No one expected Billy Graham.

Even though everyone except toyomotor knew about McCain jokes
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 21:14
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote from New York Times 30 Sep 2017-
  • Tom Price, the health and human services secretary, resigned under pressure after racking up at least $400,000 in travel bills.
  • Mr. Price’s decision came just hours after President Trump publicly dressed him down for the second time in a week.
During the Election Campaign, Trump promised, if elected, to surround himself with the best people in the country.

Well, he obviously didn't. Price has been in office only a few months, and has racked up nearly half a million dollars in travel bills. Talk about pigs with their snouts in the trough.

But he's not the only failure in Trump's selection process, not by a long chalk. So many in fact that I won't bother enumerating them.

The bottom line is that Trump is not capable of providing the political management and oversight needed in his position. His habit of firing people, willy nilly, doesn't provide for a settled working atmosphere. Government by Twitter is childish.

AND he's yet to survive the current investigation into his alleged Russian links. If he does, he should then be looked at for his blatant attempt to relax taxation rules for the rich and famous, as he and his companies will be major beneficiaries if the legislation is passed.
Quote NYT same date.

Wealthy Benefit Most in G.O.P. Tax Plan, Report Says

By ALAN RAPPEPORT

The first detailed assessment of the tax plan found that the average tax bill would fall by $1,600, or 2.1 percent, in 2018. But the biggest drop would go to those with incomes above $730,000.


J.Edgar Hoover would roll over in his grave.



Price has been in politics for 40+ years & is a medical doctor but Trump must be insane to put any faith in this guy!

Price knows the ridiculously complicated Affordable Care Act law (also known as Obama Care) better than just about anyone in the country.

Price didn't do anything wrong except maybe fail to get Obama Care repealed.

Price dipping into our tax money is very common in the swamp, so to supporters Trump demonstrates consistency, whatever the real political motives were. 

But then you prefer the horrible lies and distortions of the Obama years to the silly jokes that you want to call Trump's LIES, oooh sooo evil Trump & his lies. Evil Smile

Therapy Dog on way, I'm sending him with Johnny Depp.  

The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 22:20
The Child Tax Credit increases with Trump's tax proposal to even higher earners than are currently eligible.
At present people earning $50 000 a year are eligible for a $1000 per child tax give away. 
If the bill increases the pool of eligible earners it will off set the increase to upper & higher earners who are considered the top of the middle class.

The Capital gains reduction is designed to encourage growth & job creation. Once again, poor people don't fuel the economy.

Don't get your financial news from NYT.
Plenty of criticism of him at the Wall Street Journal and they actually understand global finance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 00:36
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Trump was elected bc he was preferable to Hillary Clinton. 

No one expected Billy Graham.

Even though everyone except toyomotor knew about McCain jokes

1. Roger that, a Devil and The Deep Blue Sea vote?

2. Nor did they expect, I think, a sexist, self important, arrogant, and possibly corrupt man.

3. Jokes-about his disability? No I didn't, and I still fail to see the joke.

Quote   From Wiki
He became a naval aviator and flew ground-attack aircraftfrom aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. While McCain was on a bombing mission over Hanoi in October 1967, he was shot down, seriously injured, and captured by the North Vietnamese. He was a prisoner of war until 1973. McCain experienced episodes of torture and refused an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer. The wounds that he sustained during war have left him with lifelong physical disabilities.

And that's funny? The stuff of jokes and mockery?

SHAME!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 02:33
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Trump was elected bc he was preferable to Hillary Clinton. 

No one expected Billy Graham.

Even though everyone except toyomotor knew about McCain jokes

1. Roger that, a Devil and The Deep Blue Sea vote?

2. Nor did they expect, I think, a sexist, self important, arrogant, and possibly corrupt man.

3. Jokes-about his disability? No I didn't, and I still fail to see the joke.

Quote   From Wiki
He became a naval aviator and flew ground-attack aircraftfrom aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. While McCain was on a bombing mission over Hanoi in October 1967, he was shot down, seriously injured, and captured by the North Vietnamese. He was a prisoner of war until 1973. McCain experienced episodes of torture and refused an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer. The wounds that he sustained during war have left him with lifelong physical disabilities.

And that's funny? The stuff of jokes and mockery?

SHAME!!!
Quote 2. Nor did they expect, I think, a sexist, self important, arrogant, and possibly corrupt man.
That's funny because the entire time Trump was campaigning that's Literally All the Mainstream Media droned on about. Everyone knew what we were getting and he still won.
He was chosen by the voters bc Hillary was one of, if not The Worst Candidate of All Time, exactly right. You see this as an anti-Trump statement? It was an Anti-Clinton statement.

So thank that cackling hen for being so unappealing to the UN- ANTIFA population.

It just may be possible that McCain and Trump really hated each other long before the 2016 elections. Trump has horrendous things said about him on a daily basis and I don't think he holds back on those who oppose him.
Don't feel too badly for McCain he will spend the rest of his career jacking up anything Trump wants done especially militarily.

franciscosan, your praise of McCain's virtuous campaign reminds me of Romney's 'elevated' campaign that was just another loser. First you get elected or you are not going to help anyone.
Palin was a huge mistake but once he chose her it was clear the base loved her. He stifled her another big mistake. Nice guys don't face down tyrants. That's what Trump diggs are about.
War hero or no, POTUS candidate gets to show us all how much he can cope with outrageous situations. 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 06:18
Vanuatu

Phphphphpt! (raspberry).

I know what you mean, and I don't understand it. You've never seen me advocate for H.R.Clinton, have you? I agree with your assessments of her.

But, had Trump not had the finances, would he still have been elected?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 13:55
Hey, I read today in the NY Post and the NY Times that Trump has told Rex Tillerson not to waste his time on talking with the North Korean.

This, after Rex Tillerson revealed that he was in communication with North Korea, and there seemed to be a chance, just possibly, the the current tensions may be overcome.

Why would he do this?

Does Trump really want armed confrontation with North Korea?
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 14:44
People donated to Trump's campaign.
The Bush family is richer than god, is that why both father & son won the White House?

NO ONE to date had more money than Hillary Clinton & she still blew it. You saw the electoral map, most people hate her. 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 18:34
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

...  One doesn't have to guess which category he feels that he is in.  Assuming this dichotomy, one has to imagine that a lot of people he would consider a mark (Carny term), voted for him.
A lot of people who regressed to infantile state sucking their thumbs and setting fire voted for Hillary.
They refuse to hear speech that doesn't agree with the media driven narrative and they can't tell the difference between Obama's first hundred days & Trumps. Who were they a mark to? Hillary? Obozo? Jonathan Gruber?






Edited by Vanuatu - 02 Oct 2017 at 18:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 21:01
meet the new boss, 
same as the old boss,
just like yesterday,
we get on our knees and pray,
we won't get fooled again.
Baba O'Reilly by the Who.

PJ O'Rourke said that (basically) the election of Hillary Clinton would have been a normal disaster, whereas the election of Donald Trump would be an extraordinary disaster.  We will see how the forecast turns out.  PJ O'Rourke is a conservative humorist, and author of such books as "Republican Party Reptile" (which he unabashedly is).

You know, arguing that one is justified in voting for one idiot without a track record, because other people voted for another idiot without a track record, is a non-sequitur, the conclusion does not follow from the premises.  Vanuatu, I think that you arguing that voting for Hillary is an extension of the same mistake of voting for Barack Obama, I see voting for Trump as a pendulum swing, we (actually the Democrats) went too far one way, and now it has gone to the opposite extreme which being an extreme is more like Obama's extreme than Hillary would have been.  I see Hillary the way PJ O'Rourke sees her, a normal kind of terrible.  But as far as being terrible, I am sure that Trump is a much "better" choice than Hillary would have been.

I wanted just about any one else in the Republican field, except Ted Cruz, I would like the pendulum to stop being pushed to the extreme.  Going from one extreme to the other, just mean there are new leaches attacking the body politic.  Even if we had just stayed at the previous extreme, we would still have the advantage of having _full_ leaches attached to us, now we have a whole new set of blood thirsty suckers, which will suck us even more dry.  No, I am not very confident in the tax reform.  Trump is a man who ran his own company into the ground out of spite, and was bailed out by the banks because he was worth more to them alive than dead.  Sounds like too big to fail once again.  I don't see why he wouldn't run the entire nation into the ground, he has done it once, he could do it again, out of spite.

Of course, if she had been elected, she might have collapsed and Cain would have had to take over.  And that would have been too bad.  She collapsed once as Secretary and once on the election trail, she obviously has a habit of pushing herself too far.  It probably preserved her life a a dozen more years by not getting elected.  Donald Trump is used to pushing others to far, not himself, but if anything happened to him, Pence, the darling of the religious right would be in office.  Of course, some people think that was the strategy, pick someone worse than Trump, so no one would want anything to happen to Trump.  But it seems like each had a different strategy for Vice President.


Edited by franciscosan - 05 Oct 2017 at 21:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 02:18
Oh yea that piece of garbage Mike Pence! He's innocuous and looks like an astronaut, good optics! that Tim Caine had an air of Frank Burns (M*A*S*H) about him, shudder.  Tongue

Lots of people were/are critical of Steve Jobs ultimately he looks like a guy ahead of his time no matter the problems he had with CEOs. Trump makes mistakes but no one who succeeds wins all the time he only has to win 50?+% to be doing ok. Better than the last is expected.

Quote You know, arguing that one is justified in voting for one idiot without a track record, because other people voted for another idiot without a track record, is a non-sequitur, the conclusion does not follow from the premises.  Vanuatu, I think that you arguing that voting for Hillary is an extension of the same mistake of voting for Barack Obama, I see voting for Trump as a pendulum swing, we (actually the Democrats) went too far one way, and now it has gone to the opposite extreme which being an extreme is more like Obama's extreme than Hillary would have been.  I see Hillary the way PJ O'Rourke sees her, a normal kind of terrible.  But as far as being terrible, I am sure that Trump is a much "better" choice than Hillary would have been.

To the extent that both Obama and Hillary are ; far left, democrats, globalists, apologists, sexist, racist and living in fear of losing their leverage over poor and minority voters-they are the same. 
You have it turned around, it's Hillary that would have you grabbing your ankles, by now if she were POTUS, islamo fascist / rapists waiting for Hillary's cue to 'uncloak' would have risen up and reigned bloody murder on the populi. Who are armed for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2017 at 21:19
Dt's biggest prob is he is not a poli....he's a businessman rocking the establishment on both sides of the aisle. Which is refreshing. He's the capitalist tycoon..a type which made the nation great once.

Better the Wildman businessman who won the election then the shrew who lied about emails...creates a continuous false image...Benghazi...uranium sales to the Russinas..a bullsh*t Russian reset..the foundation...her husbands cavorting with known pedos etc. etc. Till I get nauseated.

But she's estab...DT isn't...and there is the rub. The liberals need a target and he's the current one. Turn the page and read on. It's nothing new.

But i'll say one thing and that's that he does have a mission and that's 'make America great again'... a phrase which William Jefferson used 20 years ago..which BO and cronies decidedly did not. Last time it was no win Johnny M and the man from Utah....both of whom are in the estab.

ironic eh.

Edited by Dark Warrior - 08 Oct 2017 at 21:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 13:40
Trump has taken a swipe at an outgoing Senator, saying that he didn't have the guts to run because Trump wouldn't endorse him. The Senator made a cutting comback.

Trump obviously hasn't heard the old saying about being kind to those whom you climb over in order reach the top, because they're the same peole you will encounter on your way down.

Someone should tell him about it!

And it's not all related to his political enmities either. His financial empire hasn't always been on firm ground, and there's no guarantee that it will continue to be stable in the future, without his political interference.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 14:21
''Trump obviously hasn't heard the old saying about being kind to those whom you climb over in order reach the top, because they're the same peole you will encounter on your way down.''



Nah no need...he doesn't have to like anyone...or be liked...no President does as a matter of fact. All he/she needs is the support of the people who put them there...see for example Andrew Jackson. Another good example of a like personality was old Harry Truman who didn't like who he didn't like no matter the party affiliation...and don't give a healthy sh*t to the contrary.

The great ones were not polis first Americans second...they were visionaries who reversed that. Is DT such...to early to say....but he by god thinks he is.

And in business..polis and war; he who 'thinks' he's a winner usually becomes one. That's American history for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 14:30
Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

''Trump obviously hasn't heard the old saying about being kind to those whom you climb over in order reach the top, because they're the same peole you will encounter on your way down.''



Nah no need...he doesn't have to like anyone...or be liked...no President does as a matter of fact. All he/she needs is the support of the people who put them there...see for example Andrew Jackson. Another good example of a like personality was old Harry Truman who didn't like who he didn't like no matter the party affiliation...and don't give a healthy sh*t to the contrary.

The great ones were not polis first Americans second...they were visionaries who reversed that. Is DT such...to early to say....but he by god thinks he is.

And in business..polis and war; he who 'thinks' he's a winner usually becomes one. That's American history for you.

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Quote ryryryryryryry TEXT OF YOUR POSTryryryryry and at the end, type

Your quote will then appear in the white box as a quote.

Feel free to experiment with Post Options, it gives you several options which you may want to use occasionally.




Edited by toyomotor - 09 Oct 2017 at 14:37
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 02:38
Ok. I'll fiddle with it if it helps ease of access. Thanks for tip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 03:10
President Trump apparently is repealing Obama's coal standards legislation, which I understand that Trump wants to piss on anything Obama has ever touched.  But is going back to coal really that good of an idea?  Especially since it probably means subsidizing the coal market.  So what does that mean? perhaps doing what is bad for the environment, and what is economically bad for everybody, but will short term benefit people who mine coal, short term because the health effects of coal will be kicked down the road also for coal miners.  Of course, they want to deal with the more mediate problems of joblessness, and Donald appears to offer them an apparent solution, which cause more problems for the rest of society, perhaps, but Donald in handing out largess does not care about that.

We should note that the United States is sometimes called the Saudi Arabia of coal, we have more coal reserves than anyone else.  That does not necessarily mean that we have to use coal, it may be the case that newer facilities can answer environmental standards, but what we are talking about is continuing with dirty facilities or even starting up, what has been already closed down, and subsidizing that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 05:52
Quote Trump wants to piss on anything Obama has ever touched

Roger that!
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 01:12
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

President Trump apparently is repealing Obama's coal standards legislation, which I understand that Trump wants to piss on anything Obama has ever touched.  But is going back to coal really that good of an idea?  Especially since it probably means subsidizing the coal market.  So what does that mean? perhaps doing what is bad for the environment, and what is economically bad for everybody, but will short term benefit people who mine coal, short term because the health effects of coal will be kicked down the road also for coal miners.  Of course, they want to deal with the more mediate problems of joblessness, and Donald appears to offer them an apparent solution, which cause more problems for the rest of society, perhaps, but Donald in handing out largess does not care about that.

We should note that the United States is sometimes called the Saudi Arabia of coal, we have more coal reserves than anyone else.  That does not necessarily mean that we have to use coal, it may be the case that newer facilities can answer environmental standards, but what we are talking about is continuing with dirty facilities or even starting up, what has been already closed down, and subsidizing that.

Rick Perry, Sec Energy(?) has some 'plan' to use coal to make petro chemicals and somehow revitalize the coal market. 
Perry said that the notion of a free market in Energy is a 'fallacy' and points out Obama's failed, disastrous, money losing projects in Solar and Wind energy. So I would agree it's Trumps attempt to help the coal industry and what ever short term benefit available. 

I guess Perry is correct, energy will be the pet project of a given administration. Plastic products were made from oil mostly in the 1980's a lot of people thought there would be no end to it. Ever heard of Michael Ruppert? He was known for appearing on the Phil Donahue show in the 1980's and talking about the CIA enlisting dealers to traffic in crack cocaine. He was also fixated on the power of Big Oil since its use was so prevalent. For now researchers are using GMO corn, polylactic acid as a replacement for oil in making plastics. 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 16:31
Subsidizing is a well worn and tried and true tradition of both sides of that aisle. So of course DT's pandering back to elements of the base. When hasn't that been done. eh.

Coal yepper...cuz the left whines enough abought nucs already. So there goes that option. The key is in retooling and upgrading the structure to use varied forms of generation. Not to mention hardening from the wacks with nucs thinking emp. As ya note solar and wind have proven to be a bust especially solar. Though hundreds of millions in subs were ntl proffered and received.

There hasn't been a field of science or ag or infrastructure in my life time that hasn't been given my tax dollars. Nothing new. The question remains and always will remain prioritization of funding and effort which generates the most immediate and future benefits to the tax payer. And as they remain numerous the arguments will rage on.

Here's my ideal list of subs in rank order.

1. Defense.40%
2, Infra especially roads, bridges and hardening.30%
3. RDA/Tech/Alt sources of energy. 15%
4. Medicine/disease prevention. 15%
5. Social asistence. 5%

And I am been generous on that last one.
Bellator est tibi morte.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 00:55
Some people who were against nukes changed their mind with Fukushima, considering it a success.  I mean think about it, the reactor complex was hit by an 8. earthquake and a 30' tsunami and it still contained the radiation.

solar and wind are not a bust, they are limited in their usefulness, but they can contribute to the whole energy pie.  Our family has solar since the Carter administration which gave subsidies for it.  The solar system has had to be overhauled once since then.  I don't think that the gains are astronomical, but over the years it has paid for itself, and then some.  Never run out of hot water;)  But, I don't see much need for large government solar projects.  Wind can be nice, but promoters tend to overlook the damage they do to migrating birds and bats.  There are designs that are better for winged life, but they generally don't get used.  I have a soft spot (on the back of my head:) ) for bats, especially since they're having problems these days with disease.  But as you probably know, Dark, in Colorado you can designate where your energy comes from to your house, from renewables, or just whatever in general.  At times, the renewables (wind) have dipped below the cost of the regular sources.

One alt source of energy that doesn't get funding is cold fusion, (also called LENR (low energy nuclear reaction, or LANR (Lattice Assisted Nuclear Reaction)).  Research into it has run into a host of problems, but it is a real phenomena, getting more energy out than put in, in a table top set-up of Palladium and Deuterium.  For anybody interested in it, I would suggest checking out cold fusion.now.org, run by Ruby Carat, see also her cold fusion movies on youtube, but note, they are a little dry, documenting the work of a generation of researchers active in the 1980s-2000s.  Again, cold fusion (LENR, LANR) is real, but it is nowhere near economic.  Mitt Romney mentioned it in passing in his campaign, probably since University of Utah was where it got started.
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