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NFL Flag and Anthem Contro

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    Posted: 22 Oct 2017 at 00:27
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Dark may not be back. I think the narrative of BLM is propaganda.

No matter what shade of color you are the divide in the country is Rich/Poor.

Does Beyonce or Kanye worry about discrimination?

Do poor Whites, Native Americans and Asians worry about discrimination? yes more than ever.

Again, spot on.  Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2017 at 15:03
Dark may not be back. I think the narrative of BLM is propaganda.

No matter what shade of color you are the divide in the country is Rich/Poor.

Does Beyonce or Kanye worry about discrimination?

Do poor Whites, Native Americans and Asians worry about discrimination? yes more than ever.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2017 at 00:41
Dark, I am not sure what you mean by propaganda, are you talking about the propaganda of the protesters, or the propaganda of football itself?  Football is itself a big 'hurray for our side!  Rally around the flag!"  I think it is pretty skillful of protesters to highjack that bus, "amend" the story.  I can understand football fans to be frustrated about it.  But it is hard to extract it (one would have to forego the Star Spangled Banner), and it is hard to satisfy their demands which are emotional in basis, not rational.  Seriously, under what criteria would the protesters consider themselves satisfied with the situation and thus give up their protest?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 07:27
In then and as a final note, and as noted previously, this is nothing more that propaganda of a cause. Better suited in a different venue, imo.

A quasi form of 'Propaganda of the deed'.

Nothing more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2017 at 07:25
Irrelevant
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 18:48
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Definitely loopy.Wink
Let's not assume that every time we see BLM it means you know who.

It could very well be about Black Lab Male.

Michael Caine has been in 87 movies lol wow!

How about Black Label Malt (Whiskey)?   LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 13:21
Definitely loopy.Wink
Let's not assume that every time we see BLM it means you know who.

It could very well be about Black Lab Male.

Michael Caine has been in 87 movies lol wow!
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 00:38
V
 Have you gone loopy? What's it all about Alfie?

Bi-Lingual Meanings?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 23:14
Big smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 21:04
Every time i see BLM I think Bureau of Land Management:P

What exactly is being protested?  I mean if you are protesting, you want something, right?  What are the criteria for the NFL protesters to say, "we got what we want, we'll stop."?  Who is the protest aimed at, the police departments which have nothing to do with promoting and sponsoring the games?  The fans who are there to drink beer and watch aggression play out on the field?  Society?  America in general?  How are the fans supposed to respond to this protest?  Maybe they should "care" more, maybe they should be more "aware."  Whatever that means.  The protest seems mismatched for its goals, if it really has any goals whatsoever.  It seems more like that emotional response to do "something," regardless of whether that something is effective, or appropriate, or right.

But, I admit, football's image is already tarnished for me, so if this turns some people off of football, that is fine to me.  It would be interesting to see if this would affect football's popularity, political muscle enough to make a difference in the box office.  If so, at that point, one wonders if the prima donnas would take a pay cut for sake of their principles.

We already have a problem with (predominantly) the liberals in Hollywood using their esteem to talk about issues which they have more feeling for, than familiarity.  This just seems like an extension in that direct.  I am not saying that they cannot do it, I am saying it is making a moment of commonality into a moment of division.  You should not necessarily do, everything you can do.  But, of course, neither can you fix the problem (of divisiveness during the pledge), by requiring everybody to "toe the line" so to speak.

Again, Football is not a sacred institution for me, searchanddestroys explanation of taking a knee is interesting.  It is a more effective protest than just sitting, but it still is the mark of a division, which again one might say there already is a division between me and the football players.  This might just widen it or widen it for, probably not the diehards, but the more marginal fans.  If you believe that there is nothing more American than football then this probably annoys.  If you feel as I do that Football is big business, that often uses political muscle to protect its interests, and sometimes results in traumatic brain injury and suicide, then this is not as big of a deal.  Another straw on the camel's back.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 18:55
Originally posted by Vanautu Vanautu wrote:

When you say no one listens to complaints about racism I wonder, what country you are living in? Connecticut sounds like a foreign land. Regional differences I guess. I'm in Massachusetts, AA's are educated, healthy and middle class we never see arson and assaults at protests. There is a huge discrepancy in local political power bc  high black populations don't have enough black people in office according to some. So their views are not adequately defended.

So because our region is good, which I mentioned about BLM marching in the city of Waterbury in CT, that we should not see the issues in other regions of the country? Don't you think that is the PROBLEM that they are trying to bring to the forefront? 

I'll tell you, here in Connecticut, there are some prominent blacks in power and white politicians do address the issues of minority citizens. Perhaps Mass does have bigger issues then CT. I guess CT maybe this "foreign land" because we are a head of our time?

The issue is the country as a whole. Are we talking about Americans, or are we to bury our heads in the sand because New Englanders are better off?

No I do not say Connecticut is ahead of it's time lol. I think you all are about the same as Ma. and other New England states. The point is that conditions here allow it to be so, not advocating ignoring the rest of the country. Obviously people can get along and compete economically. Whatever forces are stopping that from happening elsewhere are from the BLM movement itself or others in their "WAR AGAINST" whatever it is this week. 
Would you detail some of these horrors with statistics or describe incidents that particularly indicate racial bias? thanks


Edited by Vanuatu - 14 Oct 2017 at 18:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 17:55
Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

And the Navy SEAL knew better....or was of like opinion. Which means the advice rendered was also incorrect, imo. And disrespectful. Don't waste my time to protest at a sporting event. The venue while huge and opportunistic. Remains wrong.
He knew better after having a dialogue with Kapernick. He said to him not showing any kind of acknowledgement towards the flag was disrespectful and that maybe he should take a knee instead. Kapernick agreed and started to do so.


Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

I'm not there to watch civic protests. I didn't spend my money, hard earned to participate in the same there. I came to watch a sporting event.
Lets face it, watching a sport is nothing more than a luxury. Whether how you perceive or they perceive reality doesn't matter, having a dialogue does. They have got you talking about a issue that others tried and failed at. Black celebrities(actor, athlete, and political activist) and even white ones have gone out to protests and nothing has changed.
  Now you have athletes trying something to bring attention to the message others have tried to put forth. And because it makes you uncomfortable during a time of luxury, a sport, something that means nothing after you turn the tv off, that's the problem. Your opinion is they are disrespecting lives lost on the battle field, their opinion is they are using their constitutional right to shine light on Americans losing their lives on the streets of America.

Originally posted by Dark Warrior Dark Warrior wrote:

But as I noted when I opened this. We all remain entitled to various view points. Btw nice to meet you.

My view point is one I believe that comes from the constitution and the forefathers. That every American may speak their mind, and they may use it whenever they like, and so it was written as the very FIRST protected right of Americans.
  You have the right to say what you like, you also have the right to be offended. But you don't have the right to tell someone where they can use their constitutional rights, no matter how uncomfortable it may make you.

It's also a pleasure to meet you.


Originally posted by Vanautu Vanautu wrote:

Maybe they have a greater responsibility then they would like to admit, meaning NFL players. Taking a knee is a pretty minimal effort.  And no one knows what it means in the context of them being on the job and snubbing the anthem. It will have no positive influence on their struggle.

Do you forget the effort of BLM? Or MLK? I left discussing the knee to the end of my post because I felt I needed to explain what had got it to that point. I feel I have explained it.


Originally posted by Vanautu Vanautu wrote:

When you say no one listens to complaints about racism I wonder, what country you are living in? Connecticut sounds like a foreign land. Regional differences I guess. I'm in Massachusetts, AA's are educated, healthy and middle class we never see arson and assaults at protests. There is a huge discrepancy in local political power bc  high black populations don't have enough black people in office according to some. So their views are not adequately defended.

So because our region is good, which I mentioned about BLM marching in the city of Waterbury in CT, that we should not see the issues in other regions of the country? Don't you think that is the PROBLEM that they are trying to bring to the forefront?

I'll tell you, here in Connecticut, there are some prominent blacks in power and white politicians do address the issues of minority citizens. Perhaps Mass does have bigger issues then CT. I guess CT maybe this "foreign land" because we are a head of our time?

The issue is the country as a whole. Are we talking about Americans, or are we to bury our heads in the sand because New Englanders are better off?



Edited by SearchAndDestroy - 14 Oct 2017 at 18:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 17:11
Quote SearchAndDestroy Which now brings me to the NFL players. They do have everything, money, cars, mansions, all from playing a sport they love. They also have something most people fail to mention, families. Parents and cousins, even friends who still live in the neighborhoods they were fortunate enough to escape from by working hard on their skills. They go back to those neighborhoods on Thanksgiving and Christmas and get to hear about hardships that they once endured. Many have talked of their own experiences too, no one listened. 

Maybe they have a greater responsibility then they would like to admit, meaning NFL players. Taking a knee is a pretty minimal effort.  And no one knows what it means in the context of them being on the job and snubbing the anthem. It will have no positive influence on their struggle.

When you say no one listens to complaints about racism I wonder, what country you are living in? Connecticut sounds like a foreign land. Regional differences I guess. I'm in Massachusetts, AA's are educated, healthy and middle class we never see arson and assaults at protests. There is a huge discrepancy in local political power bc  high black populations don't have enough black people in office according to some. So their views are not adequately defended. 

Who do you blame for that??


Edited by Vanuatu - 14 Oct 2017 at 17:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 16:57
And the Navy SEAL knew better....or was of like opinion. Which means the advice rendered was also incorrect, imo. And disrespectful. Don't waste my time to protest at a sporting event. The venue while huge and opportunistic. Remains wrong.

I'm not there to watch civic protests. I didn't spend my money, hard earned to participate in the same there. I came to watch a sporting event.

But as I noted when I opened this. We all remain entitled to various view points. Btw nice to meet you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 16:24
  Going back to BLM and the players kneeling, I tend to support both. Perhaps more people would support BLM if it was BLMA(Black Lives Matter Also).

  The USA was founded on the idea of protest and because of a feeling of being without a voice. To be heard Americans took drastic actions to make it understood that we weren't happy with the status quo.

  African Americans have felt they were being the target of abuses. After Ferguson(Which I believe the cop was correct in this case) everything blew up. BLM didn't come about yet, but it was the start. Anger boiled over because no matter how much they yelled and even talked to the media, it was if they were ignored. Many people took advantage of peaceful protest and the media put the focus on the bad, because that makes ratings for them.

  BLM has marched in my state of Connecticut and it has been peaceful. It didn't even make the news locally because there wasn't any issues. They had a route around the city, they stuck to it and exercised the VERY FIRST AMENDMENT in our Constitution(which is what soldiers take a oath to, not the flag).

  Now, BLM has tried to protest, but the good from it is never allowed to be shone. There is bad in it, from those who come with their own prejudices and vile motives. They get the attention, but at it's core, and I believe the majority of those who are trying to give a voice to BLM, which there are many chapters, really just want a discussion of the issues THEY feel exist. Whether they do or don't(I feel they do) doesn't matter. Because if you love America and the idea of it, then you should give them the podium to speak, and we should be able to respond, it's called a dialogue. Not having a dialogue causes protests and have in the past birthed Nations such as the USA which then gave way to a Constitution For the People(that includes African Americans) and made sure they had their Freedom of Speech as a basic right that could not be infringed on by others.

  Which now brings me to the NFL players. They do have everything, money, cars, mansions, all from playing a sport they love. They also have something most people fail to mention, families. Parents and cousins, even friends who still live in the neighborhoods they were fortunate enough to escape from by working hard on their skills. They go back to those neighborhoods on Thanksgiving and Christmas and get to hear about hardships that they once endured. Many have talked of their own experiences too, no one listened.
  And while Americans want to sit home and forget about how their work day went or the news on tv, their families don't have that option. African American fathers have to drill into their son's heads to keep their mouths shut around police. We only hear about the angry ones who didn't, and then the whole African American community is blamed for having a culture of disobedience.

  Kneeling was the answer for the players, or has become one. When Kaperinick first did his silent protest, he sat down. A Navy Seal went up to him and had a dialogue before passing judgement> Kapernick told him it wasn't meant to be disrespect to soldiers or anyone who died for the country, but for unfair treatment of African Americans and those who died without ever signing up to put their lives on the line. It was then that the Navy Seal suggested he kneel.

 
Kapernick didn't loot or burn down buildings, he didn't block streets or highways. All of which were on 24hr news cycles portraying an idea of change to be only an idea of Anarchy. So he used his celebrity, a risk he knew could blackball him, and tried to bring about a dialogue. And though he never said it was against the people who fought for this country, instantly people overlooked his Freedom of Speech and dismissed his dialogue and substituted it for something vile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 16:10
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote <span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Even worse to 'take a knee' in England.
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">Why?</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">If people are prepared to carry on a centuries old tradition of "taking a knee" or kneeling in front of their sovereign, so be it.
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">The Queen is not the sovereign of NFL players. Therefore it would be funny if a very naive person thought the NFL players were kneeling for the Queen.</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
Quote But in the UK, the only time that happens is one is being bestowed with a regal honour, such as a Knighthood or a Peerage. The Queen could hardly say, "Arise Sir Knight" if the bloke was already standing now could she.</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">On meeting Her Majesty, the custom is for men to bow their head and for women to curtsey. Good manners.</span>

NFL was not showing good manners. Especially since the Obamas stiff armed the Monarchy and made Brits the but of all their ethnic, racists jokes. Ouch
<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Who can forget when President George W. Bush took Abdullah by the hand like a couple of dating teenagers as he gave the Saudi king a tour of his ranch?

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Though this is somewhat shocking to Americans, it is a culturally acceptable tradition in the Middle East.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">But for an American government official to bow down in obeisance to a foreign royal is an entirely different matter. And it is <em style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: line; : transparent;">astonishing for an American president to do so.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Which is why nobody was particularly shocked when President Obama didn’t bow before Queen Elizabeth of England. We really didn’t expect him to. Americans are not subject to British royalty and therefore bowing before British royalty would be an insult to American sovereignty.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Your average American tourist would be too proud of his country and too independent to bow himself low before the British crown.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">American officials do not bow themselves low or curtsy before a foreign monarch because such a gesture symbolizes recognition of that foreign monarch’s authority and power over the government they represent.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">When the president met with Queen Elizabeth, Obama scandalized British royal protocol by taking both her hands and giving them a hearty shake. British protocol, (a subject in which we assume the Obamas were instructed) forbids one from taking the Queen’s proffered hand, instead expecting one to simply brush the royal digits and withdraw.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">OK, so Obama practically yanked both her arms off. So what? We’re Americans. She’s queen of England, not queen of America.

<p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">Despite the White House denials, President Obama offered King Abdullah a deep, subservient bow of the kind offered by a subject before his king. I don’t think I am reading too much into this. Whatever President Obama thinks Abdullah deserves in the way of subservient fealty, we Americans believe it lowers our sovereign prestige.

<span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;">
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2009/04/94521/#JlbrAAfbAw0sAO2p.99</span>
<span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; vertical-align: line; : transparent; font-family: Helmet, Freesans, sans-serif;"><p style="margin: 15px 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: line; : transparent;">

</span>




Cant deny the VT...He was bowing..clearly. Which is probably due to his Islamic heritage background and definitely displayed subservience to the same. Or appeasement in the case of the Mullahs in Iran.

In either case his destructive foreign policies couples with Kerry and Clinton's efforts to gain a lasting legacy as peace makers. Which failed utterly.

His NP was as much a gift to the first African American Pres as for any constructive policy efforts...Iow. His race made the difference not accomplishments.


DT like him or not...and btw I'm not a loyal dog here for him either; I already disagree with certain of his decision making efforts. Appreciate his style of foreign policy or not. Wont be bowing to anybody in the near future.

And this is as it should be.

Edited by Dark Warrior - 14 Oct 2017 at 16:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 01:26
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote Even worse to 'take a knee' in England.

Why?

If people are prepared to carry on a centuries old tradition of "taking a knee" or kneeling in front of their sovereign, so be it.
The Queen is not the sovereign of NFL players. Therefore it would be funny if a very naive person thought the NFL players were kneeling for the Queen.

Quote But in the UK, the only time that happens is one is being bestowed with a regal honour, such as a Knighthood or a Peerage. The Queen could hardly say, "Arise Sir Knight" if the bloke was already standing now could she.

On meeting Her Majesty, the custom is for men to bow their head and for women to curtsey. Good manners.
NFL was not showing good manners. Especially since the Obamas stiff armed the Monarchy and made Brits the but of all their ethnic, racists jokes. Ouch

Who can forget when President George W. Bush took Abdullah by the hand like a couple of dating teenagers as he gave the Saudi king a tour of his ranch?

Though this is somewhat shocking to Americans, it is a culturally acceptable tradition in the Middle East.

But for an American government official to bow down in obeisance to a foreign royal is an entirely different matter. And it is astonishing for an American president to do so.

Which is why nobody was particularly shocked when President Obama didn’t bow before Queen Elizabeth of England. We really didn’t expect him to. Americans are not subject to British royalty and therefore bowing before British royalty would be an insult to American sovereignty.

Your average American tourist would be too proud of his country and too independent to bow himself low before the British crown.

American officials do not bow themselves low or curtsy before a foreign monarch because such a gesture symbolizes recognition of that foreign monarch’s authority and power over the government they represent.

When the president met with Queen Elizabeth, Obama scandalized British royal protocol by taking both her hands and giving them a hearty shake. British protocol, (a subject in which we assume the Obamas were instructed) forbids one from taking the Queen’s proffered hand, instead expecting one to simply brush the royal digits and withdraw.

OK, so Obama practically yanked both her arms off. So what? We’re Americans. She’s queen of England, not queen of America.

Despite the White House denials, President Obama offered King Abdullah a deep, subservient bow of the kind offered by a subject before his king. I don’t think I am reading too much into this. Whatever President Obama thinks Abdullah deserves in the way of subservient fealty, we Americans believe it lowers our sovereign prestige.


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2009/04/94521/#JlbrAAfbAw0sAO2p.99




Edited by Vanuatu - 14 Oct 2017 at 01:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 01:24
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

toyomotor, I think you don't understand, it would be funny if the NFL was honoring the Queen (which they're not), esp since Obama dissed the Brits.

You have a strange sense of humour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 01:07
toyomotor, I think you don't understand, it would be funny if the NFL was honoring the Queen (which they're not), esp since Obama dissed the Brits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 01:06
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

True, Barack Obama has a bit of a grudge for how his grandfather was treated by the British in Kenya, on the other hand, his grandfather was a rebel in a low intensity conflict.  Trump is not the only one who can hold a grudge.  Obama sent the bust of Churchill back.

If the NFL were kneeling for the Queen, I would have a little more respect for them, although it would be very strange.  Americans don't understand British class structure, and British don't understand America's fascination with firearms.  Of course, if it wasn't for firearms, we might still be British.  I don't think being British is a bad thing, for Brits that is.  There was an actress on Fresh Aire interview show who said something like, 'you don't understand, I am not a citizen in Britain, I am a subject of the Queen.'  She wasn't explaining it as a good thing, just a basic difference between English and American.

Just because some Anglophile in the US purchases a peerage does not mean that legally the US recognizes them any differently than before.  We don't hold it against them either, not unless they claim to be the "duck of death."  (Clint Eastwood's 'Unforgiven' reference)

I agree with you. It's quite obvious from the top down that Americans don't understand the British class system or the peerage system.

To me, being a subject of Her Majesty is somewhat of an honour, and I wouldn't like to see that change.

I agree with your last statement, except for the fact that I think Her Majesty is still regarded with some reverence by some Americans.

(As a side note, if/when your Presient visits the UK on an official visit in the near future-he won't be staying at Buckingham Palace or with the Prime Minister. He's a bit too contraversial for the apolitical royalty.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 00:59
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:


Do you think it's funny suggesting that the NFL would kneel for the Q? Tongue
I do. 
Obama smeared the Brits, big league. 

No, you misundertand what I wrote. One only kneels in front of Her Majesty when being knighted or having some other regal title bestowed upon them. (Not a likely scenario for NFL members).

What Obama did or did not do is irrelevant.

I note that in the past, people actually stood to attention when the National Anthem was played, and removed their headgear. These days, in Australia anyway, most iff not all of the people stand, but removal of headgear doesn't seem to occur to them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 23:47
True, Barack Obama has a bit of a grudge for how his grandfather was treated by the British in Kenya, on the other hand, his grandfather was a rebel in a low intensity conflict.  Trump is not the only one who can hold a grudge.  Obama sent the bust of Churchill back.

If the NFL were kneeling for the Queen, I would have a little more respect for them, although it would be very strange.  Americans don't understand British class structure, and British don't understand America's fascination with firearms.  Of course, if it wasn't for firearms, we might still be British.  I don't think being British is a bad thing, for Brits that is.  There was an actress on Fresh Aire interview show who said something like, 'you don't understand, I am not a citizen in Britain, I am a subject of the Queen.'  She wasn't explaining it as a good thing, just a basic difference between English and American.

Just because some Anglophile in the US purchases a peerage does not mean that legally the US recognizes them any differently than before.  We don't hold it against them either, not unless they claim to be the "duck of death."  (Clint Eastwood's 'Unforgiven' reference)


Edited by franciscosan - 13 Oct 2017 at 23:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 15:52

Do you think it's funny suggesting that the NFL would kneel for the Q? Tongue
I do. 
Obama smeared the Brits, big league. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 01:48
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

United States does not recognize knighthood, or peerage.  That is part of why we got rid of the British.  If you want to interpret the NFL as modern day aristocracy, that has its problems for our culture.  They may be treated that way when the go to a steakhouse or a strip club, but really part of the appeal of football is to the everyman.

There is some story about the first Olympics in Britain, where all the parties passing the grandstand with the royal family, dipped their flag when parading by.  The only thing is in the American delegation, there were some Irish(-Americans) who promised the flag carrier that if he dipped the flag to the royal family, they would give him the beating of his life.  So that is how America started the tradition of not bowing the flag to the rulers of whomever was putting on the games.  Or at least that is the story I've heard, and I'll stick to it!  
(I would love for someone to check on the story, and find out better specifics, I am not good at looking stuff up)

So maybe we should go back to the tradition of angry Irish policemen (I think that is what they were in regular life) promising whomever bows a thorough beating.  Who knows, the fans might prefer it.

The Queen is a little old lady, and little old ladies should be humored on many things, in general I try to leave titles out, except for academic/medical and military.  I talk of Francis of Assisi, Isaac Newton.

 
Quote United States does not recognize knighthood, or peerage.


1. Funny thing that, many American citizens have purchased Baronetcies and other titles in the UK.

Quote The Queen is a little old lady, and little old ladies should be humored on many things, in general I try to leave titles out, except for academic/medical and military.

2. We much prefer to have our Queen as Head of State to your Presidents. At least we can say that she's "squeaky clean". Never one hint of scandal involving Her Majesty.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 21:32
United States does not recognize knighthood, or peerage.  That is part of why we got rid of the British.  If you want to interpret the NFL as modern day aristocracy, that has its problems for our culture.  They may be treated that way when the go to a steakhouse or a strip club, but really part of the appeal of football is to the everyman.

There is some story about the first Olympics in Britain, where all the parties passing the grandstand with the royal family, dipped their flag when parading by.  The only thing is in the American delegation, there were some Irish(-Americans) who promised the flag carrier that if he dipped the flag to the royal family, they would give him the beating of his life.  So that is how America started the tradition of not bowing the flag to the rulers of whomever was putting on the games.  Or at least that is the story I've heard, and I'll stick to it!  
(I would love for someone to check on the story, and find out better specifics, I am not good at looking stuff up)

So maybe we should go back to the tradition of angry Irish policemen (I think that is what they were in regular life) promising whomever bows a thorough beating.  Who knows, the fans might prefer it.

The Queen is a little old lady, and little old ladies should be humored on many things, in general I try to leave titles out, except for academic/medical and military.  I talk of Francis of Assisi, Isaac Newton.


Edited by franciscosan - 12 Oct 2017 at 21:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 19:57
Quote Even worse to 'take a knee' in England.

Why?

If people are prepared to carry on a centuries old tradition of "taking a knee" or kneeling in front of their sovereign, so be it.

But in the UK, the only time that happens is one is being bestowed with a regal honour, such as a Knighthood or a Peerage. The Queen could hardly say, "Arise Sir Knight" if the bloke was already standing now could she.

On meeting Her Majesty, the custom is for men to bow their head and for women to curtsey. Good manners.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 13:58
Sounds about right, the brand has lost it's shine. I do get pretty mift about the NFL players who don't stand, I mean they live here that is a statement itself.  Even worse to 'take a knee' in England. 

They don't know the meaning of honor because they don't see how much they personally benefit from those deaths so long ago. Very shallow group.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 02:59
I can't get excited if some athlete doesn't stand.  What is it called? a dog whistle?  Something which Trump followers can get worked up about, instead of serious issues?  Of course, I can't get excited about football either, so that is partially why I can't get excited about someone not standing.  I feel that the threat of concussions looming over the sport, will eventually mean its demise, or at least downgrade, degrade it.  Considering how teams have used threats of leaving to blackmail cities into new stadiums and more favorable, lucrative contracts whether the city can really afford it or not, that leaves a sour taste in my mouth.  And then there is all the off field antics that team members seem to get caught up in.  Failing to stand is not a matter of principle, it is a matter of ego.  To me it is just another straw on the camel's back.  A pox on their house, I was my hands of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dark Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 18:46
That's chicken sh*t....everyone 'MUST' stand. Until then boycot let him lose his job and the NFL the revenue. Those who kneel and disrespect the dead remain punks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 13:48
"Everyone one should stand" - Roger Goodell
And Mike Pence walked out on Colts /49ers game. Good on ya 
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