| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Trump, the 'important' issues
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Trump, the 'important' issues

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 14>
Author
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Trump, the 'important' issues
    Posted: 08 Jun 2020 at 17:12
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 14:13
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

IMHO, many such incidents of mass violence and protest start out with the intention of non-violent protest, only to be hijacked by criminals who are intent on profiting from the protest.

I agree, had the victims been white Americans, there probably would have been no protests, but, it has to be said that the electronic media fuel the flames of protest by only airing the last few seconds of a confrontation, and not showing the full lead up and therefore slanting the reasons for police actions.

I also agree that there have been many whites and hispanics killed by police, but juries acquitting the offenders, if they're charged at all make a bad situation much much worse.
We agree here. If you want to see the youtube, he just states the last years deaths by cops they number 10.
5 were undisputed acquittals bc witnesses saw suspects attack police, 2 were illegal kills by white cops they are in jail. 2 were illegal kills by non white cops they are in jail. One case dismissed that's in a country of 85 million people. 
Systemic racism is a LIE.


Edited by Vanuatu - 04 Jun 2020 at 14:14
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 13:52
IMHO, many such incidents of mass violence and protest start out with the intention of non-violent protest, only to be hijacked by criminals who are intent on profiting from the protest.

I agree, had the victims been white Americans, there probably would have been no protests, but, it has to be said that the electronic media fuel the flames of protest by only airing the last few seconds of a confrontation, and not showing the full lead up and therefore slanting the reasons for police actions.

I also agree that there have been many whites and hispanics killed by police, but juries acquitting the offenders, if they're charged at all make a bad situation much much worse.
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2020 at 12:39
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 15:08
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:


I support the right to protest, especially in cases such as the current situation, but I condemn the looting and damage being done to their own communities.

I've seen a lot of footage of assaults, looting and arson, and it seems to me to be a tragedy that so many people feel that their only means of voicing concern is by violence. Anyway, are the rioters really concerned about black deaths, or are most of them jumping on the bandwagon to get a free TV or clothing etc.

I suggest a marked difference between police and the military. Posse Comitatus specifically mentions the military and the fact that it cannot be used on US soil.

The other point, of course, is the number of unarmed, non resisting blacks who are being killed, especially by white police.
We had a thread about ANTIFA, there is building evidence that they are involved in setting fires and looting. Give it another week you will hear news stories since they are now covid testing every rioter that is arrested.

The Insurrection qualifier of Comitatus would be the Democrat Governors refusing National Guard assistance, essentially abdicating their oath to protect citizens. Military force is totally justified after 7 days. These are all Democratic states in case you didn't know.

I've seen lots of whites attacked and cops killed by rioters, I saw George get killed by those cops but no other blacks killed accept accidentally by fellow rioters. This is complete overkill. 

White Supremacists are not out killing people, Fake News.
We talked about "Zeitgeist" this is an attempt at overthrow of the government furled by media, money, drugs and the useful wedge of racism. 


Edited by Vanuatu - 03 Jun 2020 at 15:32
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 14:50
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

V

Donald Trump has declared that he will call out the military to assist police in restoring law and order.

Quote The Posse Comitatus Act, which passed after the Civil War to keep federal troops from policing the South, limits federal troops' deployment on U.S. soil and forbids using them to enforce domestic laws. The President can deploy troops if there's an insurrection or invasion on U.S. soil.Apr 3, 2018 (wiki)
  1. Bear in mind posse comitatus, can he do that?
  2. If he can't, is it possible that the military could refuse an unlawful order?
Hello my friend Smile
So strange eh? US military protecting US citizens? Not Afghanistan or Syria?

Technically there is room for dissent but Cops won't refuse, toyomotor. 

I trust you have seen the videos of elderly people being beaten by rioters?
It's absolutely needed if this continues, the virus quartered the economy and now these ironically named ANTIFA knuckleheads are destroying properties and setting fire to democrat cities whose Leftists leadership would rather watch it burn then agree with POTUS. 

These freaks are ruining any chance of black people gaining esteem.
I could post some of these videos, you will see why cops will not refuse. 

I support the right to protest, especially in cases such as the current situation, but I condemn the looting and damage being done to their own communities.

I've seen a lot of footage of assaults, looting and arson, and it seems to me to be a tragedy that so many people feel that their only means of voicing concern is by violence. Anyway, are the rioters really concerned about black deaths, or are most of them jumping on the bandwagon to get a free TV or clothing etc.

I suggest a marked difference between police and the military. Posse Comitatus specifically mentions the military and the fact that it cannot be used on US soil.

The other point, of course, is the number of unarmed, non resisting blacks who are being killed, especially by white police.
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2020 at 04:18
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

V

Donald Trump has declared that he will call out the military to assist police in restoring law and order.

Quote The Posse Comitatus Act, which passed after the Civil War to keep federal troops from policing the South, limits federal troops' deployment on U.S. soil and forbids using them to enforce domestic laws. The President can deploy troops if there's an insurrection or invasion on U.S. soil.Apr 3, 2018 (wiki)
  1. Bear in mind posse comitatus, can he do that?
  2. If he can't, is it possible that the military could refuse an unlawful order?
Hello my friend Smile
So strange eh? US military protecting US citizens? Not Afghanistan or Syria?

Technically there is room for dissent but Cops won't refuse, toyomotor. 

I trust you have seen the videos of elderly people being beaten by rioters?
It's absolutely needed if this continues, the virus quartered the economy and now these ironically named ANTIFA knuckleheads are destroying properties and setting fire to democrat cities whose Leftists leadership would rather watch it burn then agree with POTUS. 

These freaks are ruining any chance of black people gaining esteem.
I could post some of these videos, you will see why cops will not refuse. 
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2020 at 18:34
V

Donald Trump has declared that he will call out the military to assist police in restoring law and order.

Quote The Posse Comitatus Act, which passed after the Civil War to keep federal troops from policing the South, limits federal troops' deployment on U.S. soil and forbids using them to enforce domestic laws. The President can deploy troops if there's an insurrection or invasion on U.S. soil.Apr 3, 2018 (wiki)
  1. Bear in mind posse comitatus, can he do that?
  2. If he can't, is it possible that the military could refuse an unlawful order?
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 10830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 08:15
Please document Donald Trump's taxes.

But, you are probably right, he would have gone bankrupt the first time, but the banks wouldn't pull the trigger.  The rest of the time (most of the time), he was playing around with other people's money and going bankrupt with that.  Is that better or worse?  Same carelessness, but no responsibility.

As far as Trump's moral bankruptcy is concerned, that is a whole other story.  I am not sure that the democrats can come up with a viable alternative, because they seem to be wedded to identity politics and intersectionality.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2019 at 12:05
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Donald Trump's creditors (banks) decided he was worth more alive to them, then dead, and so they did not call in his debts.  He has gone bankrupt 4 or 5 times, although really it was only the first and maybe second time that it happened with his own money. 
Word to fransicosan, Trump was never personally bankrupt, it was business bankruptcies sorry MSNBC.
Please document Trump's personal bankruptcy. 
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 10830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 16:06
Donald Trump's creditors (banks) decided he was worth more alive to them, then dead, and so they did not call in his debts.  He has gone bankrupt 4 or 5 times, although really it was only the first and maybe second time that it happened with his own money.  Any "normal" person would be embarrassed by the whole mess and jumped out the window, Trump is not a normal person, but that doesn't mean that his brand of craziness doesn't work for him.  The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual only deals with mental states that are "negative" in some sense.  If your abnormal mental state is functional or hyper functional, you probably will never be diagnosed, which might be a good thing from a personal perspective, (might).  There has been a change in the DSM over the years as new diagnoses become him, and others fall by the wayside.  Once upon a time, a kid was dismissed as squirrelly now has to have medical intervention as ADD (attention deficit disorder).  Trump is someone who at least is obviously dyslexic, but instead of crying out 'woe is me!' he has adapted and has developed other strengths, that, frankly, (other) politicians do not have. psychiatry and psychology have a place in society, but that place is far from infallible, and yes, non-political.
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 22:37
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

  If I went bankrupt I'd be pretty poor. County court judgements and debts would mean ongoing issues in daily life. But I would still have a roof over my head.

If you own the property, you probably wouldn't.

In satisfying creditors, the court would order that your house, car and any other saleable items be seized and sold by auction, unless of course you somehow raised money to pay your bills.

As I understand it, Trump personally has never been bankrupt, although several of his business enterprises have.

The laws in the USA are different to those of civilised countries like the UK.Wink
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 22:32
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I think I was confusing the DSM IV, with the DMV, enough to drive you crazy.

I wonder about the politics of the DSM, and how psycho-analysis seems to be a new religion.

Not that it doesn't 'work,' it does work to a certain extent.  The "map" however, is not the reality.

Off topic I know, but DSM V is a road-map-for use by medical professionals in determining states of mental health-nothing more or less.
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1373
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 20:46
Bankruptcy proceedings in the west are designed to prevent destitution - a destitute person cannot pay his bills and costs the nation in social care. It does cause some problems afterward but remember that Trump always had a huge reserve of funds and many financial avenues to refloat himself when his sums went horribly wrong. Me? If I went bankrupt I'd be pretty poor. County court judgements and debts would mean ongoing issues in daily life. But I would still have a roof over my head.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 10830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 13:47
I think I was confusing the DSM IV, with the DMV, enough to drive you crazy.

I wonder about the politics of the DSM, and how psycho-analysis seems to be a new religion.

Not that it doesn't 'work,' it does work to a certain extent.  The "map" however, is not the reality.
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 17:23
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I do not have a copy of the DSMV IV, but I am willing to bet narcissism and psychopathic tendencies are in there.  But, you missed my point, Lincoln and Churchill would have been in there as well, under depression, but that didn't keep them from doing a good job, in fact their depressive tendencies probably helped them do a good job.  I am not saying that would be the case for Trump, I am just saying that "mental problems" are part of the picture.  Anyone who has any status in the world are bound to have idiosyncrasies.  Some after they got "there" but more likely some which developed along the way.

There is a story of Trump, seeing a bum on the sidewalk, and saying to his (Trump's) companion, "see that guy on the sidewalk, he doesn't realize how lucky he is, he is a hundred million dollars richer than me."  Anyone who has gone through bankruptcy as many times as Trump has, and _not_ been devastated, has some kind of weird wiring in his head.  It may be advantageous to him, but it is not necessarily advantageous with share holders or others around him.  I still think of Trump as a kind of reverse sh*t magnet, sh*t hits miraculously around him, but he seems to be untouched.  The prayer
in Fiddler and the Roof for the czar is appropriate for Trump, "Lord bless him and keep him as far away as possible."

Actually, DSM IV has been replaced by DSM V. Pretty much the same illnesses but in a more understandable format.
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 10830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 04:09
I do not have a copy of the DSMV IV, but I am willing to bet narcissism and psychopathic tendencies are in there.  But, you missed my point, Lincoln and Churchill would have been in there as well, under depression, but that didn't keep them from doing a good job, in fact their depressive tendencies probably helped them do a good job.  I am not saying that would be the case for Trump, I am just saying that "mental problems" are part of the picture.  Anyone who has any status in the world are bound to have idiosyncrasies.  Some after they got "there" but more likely some which developed along the way.

There is a story of Trump, seeing a bum on the sidewalk, and saying to his (Trump's) companion, "see that guy on the sidewalk, he doesn't realize how lucky he is, he is a hundred million dollars richer than me."  Anyone who has gone through bankruptcy as many times as Trump has, and _not_ been devastated, has some kind of weird wiring in his head.  It may be advantageous to him, but it is not necessarily advantageous with share holders or others around him.  I still think of Trump as a kind of reverse sh*t magnet, sh*t hits miraculously around him, but he seems to be untouched.  The prayer
in Fiddler and the Roof for the czar is appropriate for Trump, "Lord bless him and keep him as far away as possible."
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2019 at 23:30
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Actually I think the democrats have ideas to make the world a better place, starting with getting rid of Trump.  I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination to believe he has been crooked in his dealings.  I think he knows that no investigation can demonstrate that he has clean hands in his personal business dealings, therefore like a vampire, he cannot stand the light of day. poof!

I do think that Trump has some mental problems, but then again, Lincoln and Churchill were depressives that came around at exactly the right time.
The crime has to be proven not the innocence

Why can't that raggedy ass band of democrats get anything done against the anti-Christ? Ineffectual losers letting human sh*t pile up in streets? Letting walking disease machines walk past the border! 
Leftist freaks, eating mushrooms should definitely be calling the shots and they are in DC.

Trump's Mental Problems? 
And you say this looking through your political -tunnel, with the filter on while wearing the rosy glasses. Listen to Adam Schiff talking to Russian comedians about Trump pee party, that's someone with mental problems. 
James Comey lied on the FISA warrant that got American citizens spyed on and then they were approached by foreign operatives overseas. The reason was tell them things that the FBI would falsely trace back to Trump campaign. 
It's coming out and democrats are about to be crushed. The d senators sounded like infantile morons questioning Barr. Did you listen to any of it? Do you know what they are saying? Are you being intellectually honest at all anymore? They are Morons!! How about DNC/CIA and senior FBI officials deciding who should not be president? 
Hoo-ray for your side
 


Edited by Vanuatu - 01 Jun 2019 at 23:33
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1373
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 20:21
He's a character. No question. One television pundit referred to him as the latest joke president. Perhaps a bit unkind, but the manner of Trump's presidency is one of frustrated absolutism. He really did come to office thinking he was going to be emperor of America. Sadly he was unaware or unconcerned that the American political system is geared to prevent that sort of individual domination and the moment he took office he ran straight into those who didn't want to be ruled. Trump is less pompous than he was during his initial days but it seems he's still working to brush aside the governmental mass holding him back. That's his personality of course. As master of his own commercial universe, he thought politics was going to be the same.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 10830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2019 at 13:11
Actually I think the democrats have ideas to make the world a better place, starting with getting rid of Trump.  I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination to believe he has been crooked in his dealings.  I think he knows that no investigation can demonstrate that he has clean hands in his personal business dealings, therefore like a vampire, he cannot stand the light of day. poof!

I do think that Trump has some mental problems, but then again, Lincoln and Churchill were depressives that came around at exactly the right time.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 23:43
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

"Now there was money laundering.  Do Tell."
 If Trump is taking care of money from the oligarchs, then there is a question of how much they own him.  This is different from Russian interference.  Of course, Trump has the attitude of not owing anyone anything, but even with that attitude he (if he is laundering) is entangled with them.
"IF" (here we go again), democrats continue to look for an imagined crime to pummel Trump with rather than offer actual ideas for improving the US/world situation, Trump wins.
There is a big pool of candidates for the democrats. Some of them are very promising. Andrew Yang is the best IMHO. He's interested in pursuing solutions with innovative plans. Of course the most obnoxious, partisan and leftists dems lead in the polls.
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 10830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2019 at 06:56
"Now there was money laundering.  Do Tell."
If you acknowledge that there was money-laundering, then what do I have to tell you?

We own things, but things also own us, they come with obligations.  If Trump is taking care of money from the oligarchs, then there is a question of how much they own him.  This is different from Russian interference.  Of course, Trump has the attitude of not owing anyone anything, but even with that attitude he (if he is laundering) is entangled with them.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2019 at 00:56
Now there was money laundering. Do Tell.
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5506
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 13:01
If those investigating Trump truly believe that examination of his tax records will prove his involvement with Russia, fraud, tax evasion or other crimes, they should pursue them.

IF, on the other hand it's a fishing expedition to see if they can find something to use against him, his tax records should remain confidential.

The Criminal Justice system (?) in the US is somewhat different to the Westminster System in many subtle ways, not all of them good, and Trump deserves to be treated fairly like anyone else. He should not be able to use his position to avoid the laws of the US.
From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 10830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 09:55
When you mention "demented self serving level" I think of Trump, but for some reason, I don't think that is what you mean.
of course Trump wants this behind him, he wants it to go away as in wave a magic wand and voom! presto chango it is gone.  Until that happens he will kick the can down the road.

If I had been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs, I would want it behind me too.  Or not paying taxes or engaging in fraud with Trump University.  Take your pick.

no, that is not totally false, it is totally an exaggeration.  Trump is blazing new ground in his call for executive privilege.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2019 at 02:40
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

One can legally debate whether Trump's tax records are relevant for congress to decide on good tax policy.  It is not obvious that Congress has a right to know regarding Trump's tax records for its ordinary legislative dealings.  It definitely has a right to know if it is subpoenaing him for impeachment.  Pelosi has dismissed that so far, as divisive, but if he is going to stonewall congress, then maybe that is the next step. 
Pelosi dismisses it bc the Republicans' approval numbers were in the basement  after the Star investigation and impeachment of Bill Clinton. 
Releasing Trump's tax records are not about tax policy. It's about embarrassing Trump. Democrats believe that 20 year old tax records of the NYT's "Comeback Kid" will hurt Trump. Naive? Out of touch?
Democrats are "dead ringers" like a Victorian accidentally buried before death scratching at the coffin,buried under ground. 
All roads from Mueller lead to FBI/DNC and international COLLUSION. Mueller hired Fusion GPS to get Trump dirt, the dirt wasn't dirty enough or accurate. Mueller proceeded to obtain FISA warrants on evidence was "Derogatory" that is basically -bull sh*t . Derogatory evidence is a dis-qualifier for warrants in FISA court. Fusion GPS has rehired Steele to continue "looking for a crime." 

It is important to note that the FBI swore on Oct. 21, 2016, to the FISA judges that Steele’s “reporting has been corroborated and used in criminal proceedings” and the FBI has determined him to be “reliable” and was “unaware of any derogatory information pertaining” to their informant, who simultaneously worked for Fusion GPS, the firm paid by the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the Clinton campaign to find Russian dirt on Trump.

That’s a pretty remarkable declaration in Footnote 5 on Page 15 of the FISA application, since Kavalec apparently needed just a single encounter with Steele at State to find one of his key claims about Trump-Russia collusion was blatantly false.

Inher typed summary, Kavalec wrotethat Steele told her the Russians had constructed a “technical/human operation run out of Moscow targeting the election” that recruited emigres in the United States to “do hacking and recruiting.”

She quoted Steele as saying, “Payments to those recruited are made out of the Russian Consulate in Miami,” according to a copy of her summary memo obtained under open records litigation by the conservative group Citizens United. Kavalec bluntly debunked that assertion in a bracketed comment: “It is important to note that there is no Russian consulate in Miami.”

Kavalec, two days later and well before the FISA warrant was issued, forwarded her typed summary to other government officials. The State Department has redacted the names and agencies of everyone she alerted. It is unlikely that her concerns failed to reach the FBI.

Quote
If someone ignores a (House) subpoena, the next step is for the Justice Department to enforce it, but Trump is the head of the Executive, including the Justice Department.  So it is not even worthwhile for the House to attempt to enforce the subpoena.  Of course, Trump is claiming Executive privilege for everything, that is not in the constitution, but is something to be decided by the courts.  Trump is kicking the can down the road.
No Trump isn't claiming executive privilege for everything, that's totally false. That is what OBAMA did and I just showed you how with the Fast and the Furious documents. You completely turned it around and made your preferred truth factual. 
Trump wants this behind us, kicking what bloody can? 
You mean meeting democrats at their demented self serving level?
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 10830
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2019 at 11:55
One can legally debate whether Trump's tax records are relevant for congress to decide on good tax policy.  It is not obvious that Congress has a right to know regarding Trump's tax records for its ordinary legislative dealings.  It definitely has a right to know if it is subpoenaing him for impeachment.  Pelosi has dismissed that so far, as divisive, but if he is going to stonewall congress, then maybe that is the next step.  
If someone ignores a (House) subpoena, the next step is for the Justice Department to enforce it, but Trump is the head of the Executive, including the Justice Department.  So it is not even worthwhile for the House to attempt to enforce the subpoena.  Of course, Trump is claiming Executive privilege for everything, that is not in the constitution, but is something to be decided by the courts.  Trump is kicking the can down the road.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2019 at 23:56
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

The identity politics is the race to claim victim status.
LOL YEP
And now congress is a VICTIM LOL Jerry Nadler representin' the representatives. This just gets weirder and weirder. Find the victim for 20 points!

Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2019 at 23:44
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Isn't Trump placing himself in jeopardy by telling staff to ignore Congressional Subpoenas?

Aren't those staff placing themselves in danger of being arrested?

What permits the POTUS to ignore Congress?
No
No
Executive privilege
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2824
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2019 at 23:34
Originally posted by Windemere Windemere wrote:

It's hard to tell if America is moving toward a dictatorial, gangster state, or if it's just frustration and gridlock. There's probably a reason why the electorate is hopeless. They are probably so deeply divided that they can't come to any sort of consensus. Maybe we are moving toward gangsterism, but maybe the traditional system of checks & balances is operating as it should, and the frustration and division is due to gridlock, with the President and Congress cancelling each other. It's hard to say. The President surely inclines toward dictatorship, but he's also facing a lot of Congressional opposition. The main  thing he was successful with getting passed was the tax-cut, and even he now seems to realize that it was a fizzle, and he isn't talking about it much anymore.
It's gridlock for sure, it's better than bloviating.
Tax cut was not a fizzle. Rehashing settled matters isn't profitable, constant media distortions abound. Media is wasting energy by telling people what their tax return looks like, they already know.

Judiciary Rep Jerry Nadler isn't going to change the status of the Mueller report. Nadler should have realized that there might be consequences when he and Democrats tweaked the rules on Executive privilege during the Clinton impeachment. "Negotiated impeachment" is the very reason why Trump can use executive privilege to push back on congress. POTUS can agree to provide some information and answer some questions. Tons of information has been released from the Mueller investigation. In a matter of weeks, even provided a summary for the interim bitching. 
It took hundreds of days for the Obama admin to release Fast and Furious highly redacted documents and it took the courts YEARS to force the release of those highly redacted documents. Nadler is forcing this so the POTUS appears to be breaking the law in time to effect the next election.

Basically people who are already contributors to the economy, possibly small businesses, that's the $50-75K group, got the $1000 dollar tax break that was spelled out in the speeches. Those who earned above that group, more likely bigger economic contributors, saw more return and they are spending in kind-very good for the economy look at the consumer statistics Trump didn't invent these ideas, Clinton used similar "stimulus" to grow jobs during his admin see Robert Reich.
Wages are rising. I'm not going to bore you with links obviously you  have an excellent grasp of the situation. Understanding that disliking a personality makes admitting improvement difficult. If the economic gains are not real, why would the Obama friends try to link it to what HE started while POTUS?


Quote
He's also been successful with getting his appointees onto the Supreme Court, we'll just have to wait and see how that turns out.

There's also a reason for the increasing appeal of socialism and identity politics. The working-class isn't sharing in the  booming economy. They are struggling financially, and no wonder that they're turning to socialism (in the form of Medicare for All).  And they're turning to identity politics because they're alientated from the mainstream Democrats and Republicans, and they're looking for some sort of leaders that they can identify with. 
Did I mention wages are rising for low income people faster than managerial? You can dispute it but I am not seeing the horror show that you speak of in a greater degree than last admin.There is a disparity in the living wage earner's actual ability to live on the current minimum wage. Trump didn't do that. See Reich


Edited by Vanuatu - 12 May 2019 at 02:15
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 14>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.297 seconds.