The Real Immigrants

Opened as per request

easternbul wrote: Honestly my friend,but who are the real immigrants?I mean the Mexicans lived their since thousand of years and now they are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS?Can not understand it.In my oppinion the true immigrants were coming from Europe.

 

 

Well, drgonzaga, it seems that you have hit the proverbial nail on its requisite téte, vis a vis a contrario a priori ab initio! Such perspicaciousness ab ovo usque ad mala reminds one of the opacity of aqua, water by another name, but altogether more Gordian in expression! Alis grave nil, alis grave nil my friend

 

 

Now that's called having too much time on my hands

 

 

 

 

 

Al-Jassas

Those movements are motivated simply by economical reasons and nothing else.

 

 

Very funny pinguin!

 

Right after I made that post, I realised that you meant 'Americans' as more like the people in both continents, not just in U.S.  Now that makes much more sense.  I just assumed that because I thought this thread is about just U.S immigrant, but it doesn't have to be and even if it is, your point is still valid and relevant.  And I was just echoing your point without realizing it. No disagreement here no you should not be sorry, just me.  and Please forgive my transgression.  I guess it was just me that who was shortsighted trying to impose 'how I see it' to the others.   I'm grateful that you didn't get too upset with me.

 

those maps arewithout real too funny.  i'm gonna have save it and show them to my other 'American' friends.  thanks pinguin and take care.  

Only someone totally ignorant of Texas history would take the time to post such drivel. Now as for this cross-border flight, Carch, perhaps you should take time to read a certain clause in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo...if your sensibilities can get past its opening affirmation: In the name of  Almighty God...

 

If you do then read on:

 

Article XI:

Considering that a great part of the territories, which, by the present treaty, are to be comprehended for the future within the limits of the United States, is now occupied by savage tribes, who will hereafter be under the exclusive control of the Government of the United States, and whose incursions within the territory of Mexico would be prejudicial in the extreme, it is solemnly agreed that all such incursions shall be forcibly restrained by the Government of the United States whensoever this may be necessary; and that when they cannot be prevented, they shall be punished by the said Government, and satisfaction for the same shall be exacted all in the same way, and with equal diligence and energy, as if the same incursions were meditated or committed within its own territory, against its own citizens.

It shall not be lawful, under any pretext whatever, for any inhabitant of the United States to purchase or acquire any Mexican, or any foreigner residing in Mexico, who may have been captured by Indians inhabiting the territory of either of the two republics; nor to purchase or acquire horses, mules, cattle, or property of any kind, stolen within Mexican territory by such Indians.

And in the event of any person or persons, captured within Mexican territory by Indians, being carried into the territory of the United States, the Government of the latter engages and binds itself, in the most solemn manner, so soon as it shall know of such captives being within its territory, and shall be able so to do, through the faithful exercise of its influence and power, to rescue them and return them to their country, or deliver them to the agent or representative of the Mexican Government. The Mexican authorities will, as far as practicable, give to the Government of the United States notice of such captures; and its agents shall pay the expenses incurred in the maintenance and transmission of the rescued captives; who, in the mean time, shall be treated with the utmost hospitality by the American authorities at the place where they may be. But if the Government of the United States, before receiving such notice from Mexico, should obtain intelligence, through any other channel, of the existence of Mexican captives within its territory, it will proceed forthwith to effect their release and delivery to the Mexican agent, as above stipulated.

For the purpose of giving to these stipulations the fullest possible efficacy, thereby affording the security and redress demanded by their true spirit and intent, the Government of the United States will now and hereafter pass, without unnecessary delay, and always vigilantly enforce, such laws as the nature of the subject may require. And, finally, the sacredness of this obligation shall never be lost sight of by the said Government, when providing for the removal of the Indians from any portion of the said territories, or for its being settled by citizens of the United States; but, on the contrary, special care shall then be taken not to place its Indian occupants under the necessity of seeking new homes, by committing those invasions which the United States have solemnly obliged themselves to restrain.

 

The long excerpt you posted is rather irrelevant to the things I talked about. I talked about indians who fled from US army into Mexico, other times they fled from Mexico into US territory. They lived in states that changed from Mexican to US supremacy but they still belonged there on both sides of the borders. Some treaties written by their supressors do not alter that fact.

You are just laying smoke screens to obsure this matter.

 

 

 

Does all the above mentioned mean that you for sure know that noone who crosses the border in a so called illegal way could be a descendant from those native Americans who in past times where chased by army troops from both Mexico and the US back and forth over the border? Do you know absolutely for sure that noone of todays immigrants ever had ancestors who where native Americans that once could have lived in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona or California?

 

 

Absolutely agree.

The problem with the immigration from Mexico to the U.S. has not much to do with Indians, no matter it is true that Indigenous people all over the history moved back and forth from today's territories of the United States and Mexico. By large, most immigrants aren't Indigenous people at all.

 

The problem is not with Mexicans either. A Mexican that flight to the U.S. to complete its studies or doing business won't have problems at all, mostly. Even more, a million of Americans live in Mexico ...

 

The problem here is with the poors of Mexico, Mexico is a country that, like Brazil and Colombia and in less degree other Latin Americans nations, have a great social divide between the poor masses and the rich. Only recently in the region a middle class is surging, but still there is a great debt with a poor uneducated segment of the population that is looking for better opportunities.

Criminality is also a factor, but that shouldn't be the major concern. After all, those immigrants comming to the U.S. from other regions, like Eastern Europe, Middle East, Africa or Asia comes from countries with even more criminality than Mexico, and the largest majority of poor Mexicans are hard working and decent people.

 

Different is the concern with the mafias across borders. That's a major concern, not only of the United States, but of all the countries of the Western Hemisphere. The traffic of drugs in one direction, money and guns in the other, are producing a lot of problems and challenge the stability of the region, and has to be stopped. Absolutelly. Just remember how the FARC guerrillas attacked from Ecuador, to realize this is a global problem of the New World.