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Terrorist Controls

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Jul 2017 at 08:50
President Trump has created some controversy over his decree that blocks citizens from certain countries entering the USA. That's his prerogative.

In Australia, the Federal Government has adopted a strange policy, IMO.

If the become aware of a foreein national or a naturalised Australian planning to travel to the Middle East to fight for ISIS or Al Quaeda, or any other terrorist organisation, the Federal Police arrest them, they're charged and if convicted, imprisoned.

My view is that it would be better for Australia if these people were permitted to travel, and then their visas or Citizenship be cancelled, not to be reinstated. That would guarantee that they would never again be permitted to enter Australia.

On a similar note, we are often told of the thousands of "Australian Citizens" who are living overseas, in the Middle East. I submit that the majority of these are people who have migrated to Australia, possibly as refugees, benefitted from the Australian Welfare System which is very generous, gained citizenship, and then returned to the country of their birth with the protection of an Australian Passport.

While perhaps the government shouldn't withdraw their passports, they should not accrue any other benefits. IMO.
I often wonder why I try.
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2017 at 16:53
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

President Trump has created some controversy over his decree that blocks citizens from certain countries entering the USA. That's his prerogative.

In Australia, the Federal Government has adopted a strange policy, IMO.

If the become aware of a foreein national or a naturalised Australian planning to travel to the Middle East to fight for ISIS or Al Quaeda, or any other terrorist organisation, the Federal Police arrest them, they're charged and if convicted, imprisoned.

My view is that it would be better for Australia if these people were permitted to travel, and then their visas or Citizenship be cancelled, not to be reinstated. That would guarantee that they would never again be permitted to enter Australia.

On a similar note, we are often told of the thousands of "Australian Citizens" who are living overseas, in the Middle East. I submit that the majority of these are people who have migrated to Australia, possibly as refugees, benefitted from the Australian Welfare System which is very generous, gained citizenship, and then returned to the country of their birth with the protection of an Australian Passport.

While perhaps the government shouldn't withdraw their passports, they should not accrue any other benefits. IMO.

Isn't there a process for canceling a visa? What country would accept them without a visa? 
Unless it's a ruling from the courts. How would a first world country like Australia, US, UK, justify sending known criminal naturalized citizens or criminal Australian citizens to other countries? 

Is there an Australian Embassy where ISIS and Al Qaeda are operating?

Can we mention why the certain countries in question have a Travel Ban?

Iran 

The State Department website said the United States does not have diplomatic relationships with Iran, therefore no U.S. embassy or consulate in that country. Other countries listed as having no diplomatic relationship were Bhutan and North Korea. 

Libya

The State Department’s website said that on July 26, 2014, the U.S. embassy in Tripoli, Libya, "went on ordered departure and staff temporarily departed due to the ongoing fighting around our embassy and the serious risks faced by our diplomatic personnel."

The ambassador to Libya and a core group of personnel work from the U.S. embassy in Tunis, Tunisia.

Since visa services are unavailable in Libya, the State Department designated the U.S. Consulate General in Casablanca, Morocco, "as the processing post" for visa applications from Libyan immigrants.

Syria

The U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria, suspended its operations in February 2012. U.S. citizens in need of emergency assistance are to contact the embassy of the Czech Republic in Damascus, which acts as a protecting power for U.S. citizens. 

U.S. passports or visas are not issued in Syria.

Somalia

The United States does not have an embassy or diplomatic presence in Somalia. It has a mission to Somalia that operates out of Nairobi, Kenya. 

Embassies in Sudan, Yemen, Iraq

The United States does have an embassy in Khartoum, Sudan.

It also has an embassy in Sana’a, Yemen, but out of political and security concerns has reduced its staffing to "minimal levels." The embassy has also suspended its consular services, the State Department said. The U.S. embassy in Cairo, Egypt processes visas for Yemeni citizens. 

Trump’s first executive order included Iraq, but the country was left out in the revised order. The United States does have an embassy in Iraq’s capital, Baghdad.

Having an embassy helps in the vetting process because that's where the State Department can do most of its questioning, said Bill Hing, an immigration expert and law professor at the University of San Francisco School of Law.

Though refugees from areas of conflict are also often vetted at U.S. embassies in other countries, Hing said.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/may/31/john-kelly/are-there-us-embassies-countries-listed-trumps-tra/




Edited by Vanuatu - 13 Jul 2017 at 16:58
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2017 at 03:29
[quqote]Isn't there a process for canceling a visa? What country would accept them without a visa? 
Unless it's a ruling from the courts. How would a first world country like Australia, US, UK, justify sending known criminal naturalized citizens or criminal Australian citizens to other countries? 

Is there an Australian Embassy where ISIS and Al Qaeda are operating?

Can we mention why the certain countries in question have a Travel Ban?[/quote]

  1. The idea is to wait until they arrive in country, and then cancel;
  2. Negates second part of your question.
  3. Where the citizen is a dual national, there is a protocol whereby they can be returned to their country of birth;
  4. If the person in, for example an Australian National by birth-we can't.
  5. Don't know, wouldn't think so.
  6. I suppose you're talking about Syria etc, if so, Australian nationals are prohibited from travelling to this country while there is ISIS activity taking place. I don't know about Afghanistan.
Incidentally, Australia has started taking the option of deporting criminal non-citizens back to their home countries, like the UK and New Zealand. The most recent cases involve criminal Outlaw Motorcycle Gang Members, some of whom have been here for decades. We will not be the trash bag for Oceania!
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2017 at 07:03
Good News

Wait until they arrive in which country?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2017 at 10:18
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Good News

Wait until they arrive in which country?

Their final destination, obviously, Syria, Afghanistan, wherever they intend to link up with the terrorists.

The good thing about it is that they then become stateless, as no other western country would accept them either.
 
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2017 at 18:14
That is not really a good thing, becoming stateless, they have no other loyalties than a violent and senseless version of Jihad. 
or Gitmo.  But, that is not really a good thing either.  It may be better than the alternative (or may _have_been_ better) of them looking around for the next "war" to fight.
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