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Scientific Revolution

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Chieftain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 03:55
So the Scientific Method IS the reorienting of occultism and magic, alchemy; the common link between magic and science is the element of coercion or manipulating the natural world.
It turns out humans are effective manipulators in the natural world. 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 04:26
Quote It turns out humans are effective manipulators in the natural world.

Yes, but not the only ones. Scientists are discovering that some animals are having an impact on their own an neighbouring environments. We've known about various ape family capabilities for years, but now it eventuates that other species are also having and impact, animals such as birds, for example.
Once you eliminate the impossible,
whatever remains,
no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2017 at 22:39
Except in occult forces, the causes are secret and not apparent, unlike science.
I am not sure what you mean, toyomotor, all you need to see is a too-big herd of deer in a mountain valley eat themselves out of house and home to know that animals effect (and degrade their environment).  The re-introduction of wolves in Yellowstone Park, has put a check on the Elk overgrazing, and the whole ecosystem, both plant and animal has prospered as a consequence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2017 at 00:19
I have gotten more interested in John Wesley, an evangelical and the founder of Methodism in the 18th century (1700s).  I wonder how he is a response to the scientific revolution and the enlightenment.  Methodism was originally a derogatory term by Wesley's critics, saying that his engagement in religion and life was methodical.  He originally was an Anglican, then eventually broke from the Anglican Church, as the hierarchy became increasingly hostile to him.  But, it is interesting that his life spans the enlightenment.  And I think he is definitely responding to that era.

I also wonder how "evangelical" today, compares to "evangelical" then, and how much (or little) Methodism today is "evangelical."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2017 at 06:18
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote It turns out humans are effective manipulators in the natural world.

Yes, but not the only ones. Scientists are discovering that some animals are having an impact on their own an neighbouring environments. We've known about various ape family capabilities for years, but now it eventuates that other species are also having and impact, animals such as birds, for example.

So true, birds are amazing! Finches have a discernible language and all birds effect the ecosystem. Even plants have been observed to communicate, sending out SOS messages to help with insects and plants who are mutually symbiotic find each other. Animals do likewise, humans should be so wise.


The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Aug 2017 at 06:32
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I have gotten more interested in John Wesley, an evangelical and the founder of Methodism in the 18th century (1700s).  I wonder how he is a response to the scientific revolution and the enlightenment.  Methodism was originally a derogatory term by Wesley's critics, saying that his engagement in religion and life was methodical.  He originally was an Anglican, then eventually broke from the Anglican Church, as the hierarchy became increasingly hostile to him.  But, it is interesting that his life spans the enlightenment.  And I think he is definitely responding to that era.

I also wonder how "evangelical" today, compares to "evangelical" then, and how much (or little) Methodism today is "evangelical."

Wesley is a smart interesting guy. Apparently he wrote a very famous book on medicine and folk remedies among others. So, "Methodist" as a negative label for Wesley and his enthusiastically spiritual group has some historical justice, I read that Wesley had quite a following in his lifetime.
Methodist does suit him when you consider the structure in his faith like weekly communion. 


"Wesley assimilated and adapted the ideas of John Locke, Peter Browne, and John Norris in forming an epistemology which valued "spiritual senses as well as those in the physical domain."7   Orthodox theologians Thomas Bray, William Law, Isaac Watts, Bishop Butler (in part), and William Cowper all affirmed the need for empirical verification expressed in Locke's An Essay Concerning Human Understanding (1690). Wesley's practical bent, aversion to metaphysical speculation, and emphasis on facts before theory follows the tradition of Francis Bacon, Locke, and Newton. He singled out Bacon for praise for his emphasis on the inductive method."

BACON!Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2017 at 21:47
(William?) Harvey was Bacon's physician, he criticized Bacon's inductive method, or so I understand.
Harvey of course, figured out the circulation system.

I think Bishop Butler prohibited John Wesley from preaching in his parish, calling him (something like) a crazy man.
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