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Roman Empire is "alive and well"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 11:27
A theory is only an attempted explanation - it requires proof. All that truthsetfree has done here is juggle dates and words like some sort of bizarre crossword puzzle. It's the same mangled concepts that has my family descent linked remotely to Jesus. Seriously, there are people out there who have concocted a theory that my family name is distantly connected to the New Testament. Luckily for me most people regard this as rubbish, as do I, because otherwise I might have to walk on water and cure the blind to avoid public outrage.

Cpntext is everything, truthsetfree. That's why these tenuous correlations of yours are nothing mkore than juggling symbols until something fits, rather like a jigsaw hammerd together to show something different from the box.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 13:46

Wolfhnd: i have take everyones "advice" and now wasted two whole days doing 3 popes & emperors biographies details matches evidences, which you have all so far ignored. I don't know what other "advice"/"ways" you mean or am able to do.
I was not any more "confrontational" than anyone else was to me first, except less subtly. People always do it to me subtly first and then i am the one that is made to look bad.
It is not all truly "helpful advice" if it it unreasonible and/or unsuitable and/or unpossible for me. I am a researcher/scholar/investigator not a popular writer or TV director.
It simply is not possible for me to go through all 46+ popes & 46+ emperors biographies collating even more stark proofs, and even if i could and posted it in readible form you[s] will probably still ignore/reject it.

caldrail: What is "proof"? I have tried to show very stark quality & quantity evidences/proof, but oh no it is never good enough. What the heck do you darn want?
It is not "juggle dates", they mostly match exactly. You know there will be some differences because it was a lie and they couldn't just make it totally obvious.
They are not just "tenuous correlations". There are too many quality and quantity vertical and horizontal correspondences and evidences to be anything other than due to someones design.
It is not just a theory or "attempted explanation", it is a certainly correct discovery.
What "context"?

How can you deny the possibility that "pope/bishop" Pius is the same as emperor Antoninus Pius of more or less the same date? What odds are there of two prominent Piuses in one city at same time? (And multiply that by 46+ because we showed that all/most/many of the first 46+ popes all match the emperors (all in order).)

How can you deny the possibility that "pope/bishop" Alexander matches Trajan who was "thinking aloud of Alexander at Charax"?

How can you deny the possibility that "Pope/bishop" Caius matches Caius Diocletian of exact same dates.

How can you deny the possibility that "pope/bishop" Leo 1 matches emperor Leo of same dates?

How can you deny  that the meaning of "pope/bishop" Linus name "flax coloured hair" is same as Vespasian's name Flavius "yellow coloured hair"?

[How are the hell these just "juggling dates", "tenuous correlations", etc, or linguistically impossible? How the hell can i post it in any clearer English and "interesting ways"?]

How can yous deny some of the biographies details matches we have posted on Severus/Zephyrinus, Callistus/Caracalla, and Linus/Vespasian in our last 3 replies?

How can you deny the possibility that the "popes" match the emperors since there are so many names/meanings & dates & details matches (and all in order)?

Why can't you understand that the papists couldn't just create a total exact same names and dates list because it would just be exactly the same and too obvious? How can anyone deny the possibility that the 2 lists are the same (from the quality and quanitity matches we have shown)?

"pope/bishop Linus" & emperor Vespasian biographies details matches:

-- Linus:
Name Linus "flax coloured hair" or "net".
(They say that they can't be sure that bishop/pope Linus is same as Linus of NT, and that the tradition that they are same may really be just a case of "similarity of the name".)
-- Vespasian:
Name Flavius "yellow coloured hair" (Flavia gens, founded Flavian Dynasty). [Dictionaries confirm that flax coloured hair and yellow coloured hair are almost exactly the same.] (Urinals named after him. [Yellow too.])
[(Gaius) Licinius Mucianus treated Vespasian with scant respect?]
[Aulus Caecina Aelienus conspiracy?]
Statue of Apollo [Linus?]
A tomb inscription "...linvs"?
Pliny the Elder wrote during his reign.
Hercules killed Linus with a lyre. Apollo killed Linus because he had challenged him to a musical contest. Vespasian fell asleep when Nero playing lyre? Vespasian erected a statue of Apollo.
Linus/Maneros in Egyptian in Herodotus. Vespasian was connected with Egypt.
Lenus god of healing. (Vespasian visited temple of Serapis). "two [Egyptian] labourers who were convinced that he [Vespasian] possessed a divine power that could work miracles. .... Stories of a divine Vespasian healing people circulated in Egypt. .... Stories of a supernatural emperor...."
[Vespasian "fulfilled the standard succession of public offices" ~ line??]

-- Linus:
born 10 ad. reigned 56-67 &/or 64/67-76/78/79/80, "9 yrs"/"12 yrs". 23 sept / 7 June. aged 66.
-- Vespasian:
born 9 ad. reigned 68/69-79, "10 yrs". 23/24Jun. aged 69. Jewish rebelion of 66.

-- Linus:
2 pictures shown him with a bald head with 2 side patches and a 1 patch in middle-front.
-- Vespasian:
Depicted with a bald head with 2 side patches and a patch in middle-top.

-- Linus:
Linus is either 2nd Pope (1st after Peter), or 1st Pope (exluding Peter), or omitted (with Clement as next after Peter).
-- Vespasian:
Vespasian is 2nd emperor counting from Nero (1st emperor after Nero, excluding 3 usurupers), or omitted since "Domitian reincarnated Nero".


-- Linus:
No historical verification. No proof that the Linus of NT/Bible is same as "pope/bishop" Linus of papists. Earliest sources are Irenaeus c 180 & Tertullian, and they are not necessarily reliable. His martyrdom "cannot be proved and is improbable". Contradiction of sources whether 2nd pope/bishop was Linus or Clement.
-- Vespasian:
Real historically verified person.

-- Linus
"Pope/Papa / bishop / [pontiff]", successor of Peter. [Successor of Eliakim & keys of house of David.]
-- Vespasian:
[The first 46+ "popes" names etc match the Emperors names etc.]
Emperors from Augusutus to Theodosius were Pontiffex Maximus.
["Vespasian then ordered all descendants of the royal line of David to be hunted down.... ... probably ... to suppress any rival claimants arising from that dynasty.]
His grandfather named Petro.
King of Paltisca.

-- Linus:
Mother Claudia (but they otherwise say that Claudia is from 'Timothy' and it is not actually explicitly identified as his mother)
-- Vespasian:
Claudius' wife Agrippina.
Preceeded by Julio-Claudian dynasty.
"temple to the deified Claudius"?
[Claud "lame, crippled". Vespasian contracted a slight illness which eventually he died from.]

-- Linus:
Was a "martyr" (but they otherwise say that this can't be proved and is unlikely, and he is not listed as a martyr in Roman martyrology).
[Epistle of martydom of Peter & Paul.]
-- Vespasian:
"Vespasian then ordered all descendants of the royal line of David to be hunted down...."
Helvidius Priscus put to death?
[Tomb with inscription ...linvs?]
[Peter mentions a persecution which may be either/between Nero's &/or Domitian's.]
[Martyr Antipas in 'Revelation'?]

-- Linus:
"2 bishops Linus & Cletus". Some popes lists/source omit Cletus/Anacletus.
-- Vespasian:
Vespasian & Titus have same almost exact same 3 names?

I am not wasting anymore time going through the rest of the 46+ popes & 46+ emperors biographies if you don't say/prove that this is worth it (the 3 done so far, & doing any more).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2015 at 17:05

-- Pius
name Pius.
(& was "during the [reign] of Antoninus Pius".)
-- Antoninus Pius
name Pius.

-- Pius:
Born "81 ad". Reigned 140/142/146-154/155/157/161. Died/feast 11 July. (Born "11 January".) Died age "74".
(& he was "during the [reign] of Antoninus Pius".)
-- Antoninus Pius:
Born 86 ad? Reigned 138-148-156-161. (Marcus took some role from 156.) Accession 10/11 July. Died age "74".
-- Both:
Both are 140-155. Both are 11 July. Both died age 74.

-- Pius:
predecessor Hyginus.
-- Antoninus Pius:
predecessor Hadrianus.

-- Pius:
Built 1/2 churches & baptistry.
-- Antoninus Pius.
Authorised the construction of a temple to Faustina.
"Antoninus built temples, theaters, and mausoleums...."
["newly built temple to Hadrian"?]

-- Pius:
Was "Pope/Papa / Bishop / [Pontifex Maximus]"
"the account of his [Justin's] martyrdom indicates there was no Roman bishop present there."
-- Antoninus Pius:
Was "Pontiffex Maximus"
(& the "Princeps"/"Principate"?)
"Antoninus was known as an avid observer of rites of religion...."
"Instead of stirring up persecution against the Christians, he extended to them the strong hand of his protection throughout the empire."

-- Pius:
Opposed the Valentinians.
Valentinus and Marcion visited Rome during that period.
-- Antoninus Pius:
Chief lawyer L. Fulvius Aburnius Valens.
Marcus (Aurelius).

-- Pius:
"The writer of the later text identifies himself as a former slave. This has led to speculation that both Hermas and Pius were freedmen."
-- Antoninus Pius:
"Antoninus passed measures to facilitate the enfranchisement of slaves. Mostly, he favoured the principle of favor libertatis, giving the putative freedman the benefit of the doubt when the claim to freedom was not clearcut."

-- Pius
the "9th succesor of St Peter".
-- Antoninus:
"900th anniversary of Rome" during his reign.

-- Pius & Antoninus:
In their pictures they look similar to me?

And possibly/not these ones?:

-- Pius:
"The "Liber Pontificalis" speaks of a decision of this pope to the effect that Jewish converts to Christianity should be admitted and baptized. What this means we do not know...."
-- Antoninus Pius:
"Scholars place Antoninus Pius as the leading candidate for fulfilling the role as a friend of Rabbi Judah the Prince"?

-- Pius:
"Martyr (by sword)". But they otherwise say it was a conjecture and is no grounds for consideration, and is not presented as martyr in 'Roman Martyrdom'.
-- Antoninus Pius:
Peaceful non-miitary reign, which some say is his fault/blame in causing troubles later after him.
Incinerated on pyre at Campus Martius.
[Martyrdom of St Justin?]

-- Pius:
Uncertainty whether Pope/Bishop in 155/156 was Anicetus/Anicitus or Pius or none?
-- Antoninus Pius:
The name Anicetus could be linked with either A(ur)elius Antoninus (Pius), or (Marcus) Aurelius Antoninus, or (Marcus/Lucius) Aurelius Verus? Or the meaning of Anicetus "unconquered" may relate? Or his attribute of palm branch with peaceful reign of Antoninus?

Not sure of the correct match for this one, but:

-- Pius:
"Born at Aquileia, Friuli". ["of Illyrian origin".]
-- Antoninus Pius:
"... the free access of the people of Rome to drinking water was expanded with the construction of aqueducts...." [Though Aquileia may be aquilo eagle, or god Aquilo, not aqua water.]
The Aurelii?
Password Aequanimitas?
[Born at Lanuvium. From Nimes. Ancestral estate Lorium, Etruria.]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2015 at 05:09
Truth and falsity in ordinary logic are characteristics of propositions (sentences).  If I say, "there is a rooster in my living room."  That statement is either true, or false depending on how it corresponds to reality.  Or it could mean something entirely different, metaphorically, symbolically, whatever.  Still it would probably be either true or false, and _if_ it was symbolic, there would have to be some kind of coherent rules or system to determine whether the roosterstatement 'matched' the symbolic value according to "the rules."  These rules need not entirely be explicit, but also could be in areas implicit, but there are rules so to speak, discoverable through knowledge of the "system" or also what logically can be deduced from that system.
truthsetsfree, you don't write in full sentences, but make a laundry list.  I cannot absolutely say you are wrong, because without full sentences building up an argument, I don't know what you are trying to say.
I gather, that you are trying to say that the Pope/bishop list is in some fashion the same as the Roman Emperor list.  By this, I assume that you are saying that the individuals on one list are the same as the individuals on the other list.  To establish this, I would assume that you would have to show 'the content,' the characteristics of the individual on one side of the list are the same as 'the content,' the characteristics of the individual on the other side of the list.  Both similarities and differences would have to be accounted for, through explaining them as an aspect of the individual, or as an aspect of the tradition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2015 at 10:04
Well, i have done as much Extra/More hardwork that people always demand of me as i can. I have been having heart pains and blood pressure again so i have to quit. Not sure it is a waste of time anyway (from previous experiences of same thing from arch-critical forums and academics with other theses of ours).


I simply can not believe how you keep totally ignoring the further stronger evidences i have posted. This is exactly what i said: why should i do even more extra hard work that people unfairly demand when when i do do it it is still ignored. We have now the last 2 days done harder work providing matches from 9 popes & emperors biographies, and you still spout off mere words ignoring the posted evidences. I strongly suspect that you are ingeniune and are doing it on purpose. I suspect you didn't even read it even.

Fine eff everyone. Yes i can not write in perfect full sentences, but nevertheless i have tried my damn hardest to post as simple clear correspondences as possible. You are just using it as an ingenuine excuse. Just damn look at the bold bits.


"pope/bishop" Evaristus ~ emperor Nerva?

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:

Evaristus certainly seems to be either/both *Nerva* &/or (Nerva) Trajanus?
(Trajan was certainly "pope Alexander", and he may possibly also be "pope Evaristus", &/or "pope Sextus" &/or "pope Telesphorus? Though it looks like Trajan is only Alexander and not the others.)

-- Evaristus:
name Ev-aristus/Eu-charistus/Eleutherius/Aristus (eucharia "gracious", eu/su "good/well" + aristo "best"?)
-- Nerva:
Nerva's name Nerva, and Trajan's name 'Nerva Trajanus'.
Nerva "was a member of the Italian nobility". (The Cocceii were among the most esteemed and prominent political families.) 1st of the 5 good emperors (wisdom & virtue). "his benign nature".  "mild disposition respected by the good".  "well-intentioned". "super-commitee-man". "the dawn of a most happy age, [when] Nerva Caesar...." "wise & moderate".
-- (Nerva) Trajanus:
'optimus princeps' "the best ruler", sound admin, improved social conditions, modest, wise & just emperor, & moral man, dignified & fair, philanthropic rule, social welfare policies.  2nd of 5 good emperors (peace & prosperity).

-- Evaristus:
ruled 79 &/or 97/98/99-105/106/107. Died in "12th year of Trajan".
[Died aged 55.]
[26/27 oct. 23 nov.]
-- Nerva (&/or Trajan):
Nerva reigned 96-98, & (Nerva) Trajanus reigned 98-117. Coins for deified Nerva not issued until 10 years after his death. [5 good emps 96-180.]
[Accession age 65.] [27 jan.  8 nov.]

-- Evaristus:
"Pope/Papa / Bishop". Successor of Peter. [Popes elected by college of cardinals.]
-- Nerva:
"he was a textbook illustration of what nowadays is called the "Peter Principle"".
[Nerva elected/appointed emperor by senate.]

-- Evaristus:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Nerva:
deified. (Nerva Trajanus was deified too.)

_____________________

"Pope Alexander" = Trajan.

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:

-- Alexander:
name Alexander.
-- Trajan:
Trajan is said to have been "thinking aloud of Alexander [the Great] at Charax". He "sent the Senate a laurelled letter declaring the war to be at a close and bemoaning that he was too old to go on any further and repeat the conquests of Alexander the Great." "as Trajan left the Persian Gulf for Babylon – where he intended to offer sacrifice to Alexander in the house where he had died in 323 BC".
"greatest military expansion" / extended empire [like Alexander the Great]. fine/succesful soldier.
[Trojanu could link with Paris/Alexander of Troy??]
[Legate Tiberius Julius Alexander Julianus.]


-- Alexander:
Ruled 105/106/107/108/109-115/116/119. "in reign of Hadrian" / "ruled in reign of Trajan" / "under Trajan/Hadrian".
-- Trajan:
reigned 98-117. Born 53.

-- Alexander:
crown. sceptre.
-- Trajan:
Emperor.

-- Alexander --
tradition says he was a Martyr by decapitation, which is said to be improbable (other early source says nothing about his Martyrdom). [Disputed whether martyr Alexander same as pope Alexander.]
-- Trajan --
by inversion:
11000 dead in Trajan's gladatorial festival.
[Semi subterranean cemetery of martyr Alexander, Eventius, and Theodolus?]

-- Alexander:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Trajan:
deified.

_____________________

"pope/bishop" Sixtus 1 ~ emperor Hadrian?

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:


Sixtus 1 is pretty certainly either/both Trajan? &/or *Hadrian*.
(Trajan is definitely "pope Alexander", and he may possibly also be either/both "pope Evaristus" &/or "pope Sixtus" &/or "pope Telesphorus". Though it looks like he is only Alexander and not the others.)
(Hadrian is pretty certainly any/all of either "pope Sixtus", "pope Telesphorus" &/or "pope Hyginus".)

-- Sixtus:
Name Sixtus/Xystus (sex "sixth", or "polished").
-- Trajan:
Sestertius?
Consul Titus Sextius Cornelius Africanus?
-- Hadrian:
**Temple of Zeus in Cyzicus [123/124/138]?** [Compare Sistine Chapel??]
A general of his was Sextus Julius Severus.
He may have had homo-sexual relationship with Antinous.
"strict separation between the sexes in public"
[Mother from Gades/Cadiz?]
[Legatus Syriae 117?]
[Hadrian's Wall (stone)?]
"12th year of Hadrian" (6x2)?
Lusius Quietus/Kitus 118?
Consul Sextus Attius Suburanus?

-- Sixtus:
ruled 114/115/117/119-124/125/126/128, "10 yrs". "(ruled) during reign of Adrian/Hadrian".
-- Trajan:
reigned 98-117.
-- Hadrian:
Reigned 117-138. "12 yrs later". "12th yr of Hadrian".

-- Sixtus:
"6th"/7th Pope/bishop.
-- Hadrian:
14th emperor. [Minus the 1st 4 emps since Peter matches 5th emp Nero; and minus 3 "usurpers" Galba, Otho, Vitellius.]

-- Sixtus 1:
Was a "pope/papa / bishop / [pontiff]"
-- Trajan:
Emperors from Augustus to Theodosius were pontiffex maximus.
"it was commonly said in medieval times that Pope Gregory I, through divine intercession, resurrected Trajan from the dead and baptized him into the Christian faith." "Theologians, such as Thomas Aquinas, discussed Trajan as an example of a virtuous pagan. In the Divine Comedy, Dante, following this legend, sees the spirit of Trajan in the Heaven of Jupiter...."

-- Sixtus:
"Roman by birth".
-- Hadrian:
"born Rome", or born Italica (Spain) (uncertain which).

-- Sixtus:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Hadrian:
deified.

__________________

"pope/bishop" Telesphorus ~ emperor Hadrian?

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:


Telesphorus is pretty certainly either/both Trajan &/or Hadrian.
(Trajan is definitely "pope Alexander", and he may possibly also be either/both "pope Evaristus" &/or "pope Sixtus" &/or "pope Telesphorus". Though it looks like he was only Alex and not the others.)
(Hadrian is pretty certainly any/all of either "pope Sixtus", "pope Telesphorus" &/or "pope Hyginus".)

-- Telesphorus:
Name Telesphorus (tele "far", "accomplisher, bringer of completion", [*ter/trans/through "beyond"?]).
-- Hadrian:
i. "plans to complete temple of Zeus in Cyzicus"?
"... he was able to see for himself the completed work of rebuilding the Pantheon. Also completed by then was Hadrian's villa...."
"the almost complete [Hadrian's] mausoleum. Upon the completion of the tomb of Hadrian...."
Hadrian never saw the finished Hadrian's wall?
ii. [Hadrian spent half his reign traveling, and traveled to nearly every province.]
iii. [wall controled cross-border trade & immigration. crossing Mediterranean to Mauretania. conveyed across Aegean.]
iv. [Delphi??]

-- Telesphorus:
ruled 125/126/128/129-136/137/138/139. "12th yr Hadrian". "during Hadrian & Antoninus Pius".
[5 jan. 22 feb.]
-- Hadrian:
Reigned 117-138. [Antinous 123/124-130.] [Persecution of Trajan & Hadrian 108-138.]
[24 jan.]

-- Telesphorus:
"of Greek ancestry".
-- Hadrian:
Nicknamed 'Graeculus' "Greekling". Was a Phil-Hellene/Helleno-phile, "Hadrian's defined Greekness", ardent admirer of Greece, wanted to make Athens capital. He visited/travelled to Greece/Athens. Legio V Macedonica. The 'Adriatic Sea'?


-- Telesphorus:
Was a glorious/great martyr.
-- Hadrian:
by inversion:
Persecution of christians of Trajan & Hadrian (3rd of 10 major persecutions from Nero to Diocletian)
[Justin Martyr??]
'10 martyrs' (Judaic scholars).
Bloody repression of Jewish revolt 132-6 (Roman looses heavy, an entire legion destroyed; 580000 Jews killed.)
[1 whole legion disappeared/lost/destroyed in Britian in 119-121 during his reign?]
[How many people died building Hadrian's Wall?]

-- Telesphorus:
7th/8th pope.
-- Hadrian:
14th emperor. [Minus the 1st 4 emps, since Peter matches 5th emp Nero; & minus 3 "usurpers" Galba, Otho, Vitellius.]

-- Telesphorus:
T.d.S., Calabria.
-- Hadrian:
Detour to Sicily?

-- Telesphorus:
Carmel(ite).
-- Hadrian 
Jewish revolt?

-- Telesphorus:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Hadrian:
deified.

_____________

"pope/bishop" Hyginus ~ emperor Hadrian?

Some extra biographies details matches evidences:

Hyginus is pretty certainly either/both Hadrian &/or Antoninus Pius?
(Hadrian is pretty certainly any/all of either "pope Sixtus", "pope Telesphorus" &/or "pope Hyginus.)
(Antoninus Pius is definitely "pope Pius", and he may also possibly be "pope Hyginus"? Though it looks like  Hyginus better maches Hadrian.)

-- Hyginus:
Name Hyginus/Yginos.
-- Hadrian:
i. Name Hadrianus.
ii. Hadrian's Masoleum later Castel Sant'Angelo.
iii. Ignatius in/during Hadrian's reign?
iv. Hyacinthus was a beautiful youth loved by Apollo, like Hadrian loved beautiful Antinous. Hyacinth supposed to be from 'ai' "woe", compare Hadrian grieved Antinous' death.
v. Hyginus could be related to hygene? In Hadrian's reign "If you and your children are in health, it is well; I and the legions are in health."
[fell ill. ailing. suffering poor health c136.]


-- Hyginus:
Born in 78 ad. Reigned 136/138/139-140/142, "4 yrs". Died aged "62".
[11 Jan. 5 jan. 3 Jul.]
-- Hadrian:
Born in 76 ad. Reigned 117-138. [Antinous 123/124-130.] "4 yrs after". 4th yr of 227th Olympiad. [3&a1/2 years seige Beitar.] Died aged 62.
[24 jan. 10 jul. 10 aug.]

-- Hyginus:
Called "Graecvs". "Greekbybirth" (born in Athens Greece).
-- Hadrian:
Nicknamed 'Graeculus' "Greekling". Was a Phil-Hellene/Helleno-phile, "Hadrian's defined Greekness", ardent admirer of Greece, wanted to make Athens capital. He visited/travelled to Greece/Athens. Legio V Macedonica. The 'Adriatic Sea'? [Medusa on chest?]

-- Hyginus:
previously a Philosopher.
-- Hadrian
Attended lectures of philosopher Epictetus.
Familiar with the work of the philosophers Epictetus, Heliodorus and Favorinus.

-- Hyginus:
Was "Pope/Papa/PP / Bishop / [Prince of Apostles] / [Pontiffex]". Successor of Peter (who had a bushy beard).
-- Hadrian:
Emperors from Augustus to Theodosius were Pontifex Maximus.
Hadrian's mausoleum later converted into a papal fortress.
"Prince". Popular cult.
("all Roman emps before Hadrian except for Nero were clean shaven". [Nero matches Peter, eg both had bushy beard.])

-- Hyginus:
Tradition holds he was martyr(ed) (but they say ancient authorities say nothing as to his having died a martyr).
-- Hadrian:
By inversion:
Persecution of christians of Trajan & Hadrian (3rd of 10 major persecutions from Nero to Diocletian).
[Justin Martyr??]
'10 martyrs' (Judaic scholars).
Bloody repression of Jewish revolt 132-6 (Roman looses heavy, an entire legion destroyed; 580000 Jews killed.)
[1 whole legion disappeared/lost/destroyed in British uprising in 119-121 during his reign?]


-- Hyginus:
Bearded in pictures.
-- Hadrian:
Had a beard, which became a popular fashion. Depictions of him have beard (only one bronze head doesn't). ("all Roman emps before Hadrian except for Nero were clean shaven".)

-- Hyginus:
decreed that all churches should be consecrated.
-- Hadrian:
Constructed temple/temples. Rebuilt the Pantheon.

-- Hyginus:
"Saint". shown with a halo/aura.
-- Hadrian:
deified.

Fine eff everyone. From this day forward I hate cursed God and all humanity and myself. I hate you all beyond words because you say God made me a dumb eff who can't write acceptible sentences. I hate the tyrant in the sky because what is the point in making wonderful discoveries when he made me a braindamaged eff that can't communicate them. From this day forward i am at war with everyone and everything.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2015 at 10:24
It is not fair that you/they want to force me to waste years/decades/life trying to write it all out the way that you demand. I have tried to show/say it as clearly as i can. It is not my fault i have had a bad whole life and education and situation and condition.

The first 46+ "popes/bishops" are fake, they really match the contemporary Roman emperors.

"Pope/bishop Pius 1" is a fake. He really matches emperor Antoninus Pius.

Pope Pius' name is Pius.
Emperor Antoninus Pius's name is also Pius.
They both have the same name (Pius).

Pope Pius was "born in 81 ad".
Emperor Antoninus Pius was born in 86 ad.
Do you not think that this is too closely similar birth dates?

Pope Pius died aged 74.
Emperor Antoninus Pius died age 74.

Pope Pius ruled 140/142/146 to 154/155/157/161.
Emperor Antoninus Pius ruled 138-148-156-161.
They both ruled 140 to 161.

Maybe i am just a dumb dog as people say, but surely the fact they both named Pius, both ruled 140-161, and both died at same age of 74, and a dozen other matching details, and that the preceeding and succeeding popes & emperors also match, can not just be coincidence or just be my own wrong cleverness? 

Is this still not good enough "full sentences"?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2015 at 10:28
quote: "To establish this, I would assume that you would have to show 'the content,' the characteristics of the individual on one side of the list are the same as 'the content,' the characteristics of the individual on the other side of the list."

Thats exactly what i have done and yet you ignroed it and instead demand that i have to write it in prose which i am not very able to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2015 at 19:38
Then forget about it, if you want to get mad and curse God, well fine.  But it is not going to help you communicate your ideas any better (or any worse) than you are doing already.  You may not like it, but I think that people are being honest when they say they are not understanding what you are getting at.  Oh, they know that you "somehow" equate the Roman emperors with the Catholic bishops and Popes.  But they honestly don't see the similarities or, they see the similarities as being rather superficial, and you getting belligerent does not help your case.  The people on this forum (and others) are not here to give you unlimited affirmation, and unconditional love.  If you want unconditional love, get a dog, they're wonderful creatures of God.  God->Dog, see!
Communication is not about doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting people to get it, communication is about trying out things and seeing if they succeed in getting your point across.  Outside of communications, there is no guarantee that one's point is clear, and there is no guarantee that one will be able to express the ideas at all.  That is true for me as well, I have some pet theories (regarding Pythagoras), that I am not confident of my ability to clearly and concisely express them, I have them posted on a more academic website, but refrain from posting them on this forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2015 at 23:53
Well I readily admit I'm not very academic but you may start hurting our feelings Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2015 at 05:40

wolfhnd:
I am sorry, i do not mean to hurt your feelings. It is just that i am hurt that it is always either nothing or negatives from everyone on all forums the last 8 years.
(I also have a very bad hell "life" situation & condition if that helps to explain (if not excuse) a little. And the fact that i have had  the same on all forums for 8 years also should help explain.)
I did not mean you are not academic (or that i am academic), i have had the impression that everyone on forums acts towards me as if they are academic and i am not.


fanciscosan:
It is not fair to say i supposedly just want "unlimited affirmation" / "unconditional love", because i  always have only all negatives or nothing, and not ever any positives from anyone.

It is not anything like "dog = god". There are too many "popes" and emperors matches (not just one pope & emperor), and too many matches of details for each pope & emperor. And too quality matches. And all in order (both "popes" and emperors all match all in the same order). It can not be coincidence or "supeficial" or anything other than original design.

I know that i am naturally-can't-help-it a too "technical" writer and not a prose writer. But I have put so much hard work and time in to all my posts, threads/topics and discoveries theses/papers all for nothing, not even one single positive from anyone. And, it is not fair that only prose/etc people get any positive for their work, while non-prose techinical people get nothing for their good.  And, what i have posted is surely not that hard or impossible to see/read/understand/follow. I don't see anyone offering to use/write my research since i can't write it the way everyone dictates/requires.

(This thread/topic is about the discovery that the first 46+ "popes" are fake and really match the emperors. It is not about peoples holy mission to teach/inform/"help" me to learn how to write better English and/or how to write academic papers the way they expect.)

 _______________

"Pope/bibshop Cletus/Anacletus" = emperor Titus.

"Pope/bishop Cletus/Anacletus" is a fake, he really matches Titus.
(There are/were a few emperors that have seeming possible match with Cletus/Anacletus, but Titus seems the right match from the details matches below.)

Further details matches evidences from their two biographies.

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
name Cletus/Anacletus/Anencletus "unimpeachable" / "one who has been called (back)".
-- Titus:
name Titus/Tito "title (of honour)".
"It is impossible for me to be insulted or abused in any way. For I do naught that deserves censure...." "... keeping his hands unstained". "I have made but one mistake".
"Titus proved to be an effective Emperor and was well loved by the population, who praised him highly when they found that he possessed the greatest virtues instead of vices." "Titus's record among ancient historians stands as one of the most exemplary of any emperor. All the surviving accounts from this period, many of them written by his own contemporaries, present a highly favorable view towards Titus." "Titus, of the same surname as his father, was the delight and darling of the human race...." [Titus considered a day lost in which he did no good (to someone).]
"Yet the return of Titus..."

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
ruled 76/77/79/80-88/91/92, for "11 yrs"/"12 yrs".
[26 apr. 13 jul. 18 jul. 23 sep.]
-- Titus:
(Proclaimed imperator 70. Titus received title of Caesar in 69 or 71.)
 Titus on a denarius of c 79.
Reigned 79-81. (Temple of Vespasian &Titus finished by Domitian.  "the Arch of Titus... was not completed until the reign of Domitian.")
[10 yrs reign Vespasian,+] 2 yrs reign Titus ("Because Titus effectively acted as co-emperor with his father...." Vespasian & Titus shared the same name(s) 'Titus Flavius Vespasian').
(Colosseum building took 10 yrs, begun by Vespasian and finished by Titus.)
[23/24 jun. 13 sep]
Note: The first 2 Cletus dates & the 2 Titus dates both have 4 months between the two dates?

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Was "3rd pope/bishop" / "3rd after Peter" / "2nd successor of Peter".
He is omitted in some popes lists.
Cletus/Anacletus & Clement are alternatively in different order in some other popes list/s.
-- Titus:
10th emperor [but minus the 1st 4 emperors, since Peter = Nero; and minus the 3 "usurpers" Otho, Galba, Vitellius.]
Domitian was "reincarnation of Nero". [Peter = Nero, Domitian = Clement, hence some popes lists omit Linus & Cletus/Anacletus.]
Titus only reigned two years, which could be why some lists omit Cletus/Anacletus?
Titus & Domitian were brothers, which could be why Cletus/Anacletus & Clement are alternatively in different order in some other list/s?
Titus & Nerva reigned same/similar short amount of of years, which could be why Cletus/Anacletus is alternatively after Clement in some other list/s? (Plus: Titus (Flavius Vespasian), (Titus Flavius) Domitian, and
(Titus Flavius) Clemens (cousin of Domitian) all had same first two names.)
["la Clemenza di Tito"?]
[They feared Titus would be another Nero; (Several false Neros appeared throughout the 70s;) Domitian was considered a reincarnation of Nero.]
[Cletus/Anacletus ~ Titus;
Clement ~ Timothy ~ Domitian. The order in bible is Timothy then Titus?]
[Peter/Cephas, Linus and Clement are also names of persons in bible; Cletus/Anacletus is not, but Titus is.]


-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Cletus/Anacletus is shown in picture standing in/under an Arch.
-- Titus:
the famous 'Arch of Titus'.

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Shown in picture wearing a grand Crown/diadem, and wearing red/purple robe.
-- Titus:
Was emperor. "Principate".
 "he was presented with a crown by Vologases I of Parthia."
"the [Apis] ceremony required Titus to wear a diadem, which the Romans associated with monarchy".

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
"pope/papa" / "pontifical/pontificate", successor of Peter (prince of apostles).
-- Titus:
"Principate".
The emperors from Augustus to Theodosius were Pontiffex Maximus.
"he [Titus] thus kept to his promise that he would assume the office of Pontifex Maximus".
"...Titus, (also) dressed in religious regalia."
Via Sacra?
Titus' great-grandfather's surname was Petro.
"claimed that he had not won the victory on his own, but had been the vehicle through which their God had manifested his wrath against his people."
Imperial cult revieved by Titus. Temple of Vespasian & Titus.
 "the Babylonian Talmud describes "Titus as having had sex with a whore [Babylon/Rome?] on a Torah scroll inside the Temple...."

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Was a "Saint". Has a halo/aura.
-- Titus:
Was deified.

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
"Cletus was a Roman (born Rome); Anacletus was a Greek (born Athens)."
-- Titus:
Was born in/at Rome. [Titans of Greek myth? Paul's letter to Titus (who was a Grecian, and was in Crete)?]
Titus "was a skilled poet and orator both in Greek and Latin".

-- Cletus/Anacletus:
Cletus &/or Anacletus either one and same person/pope or two different persons/popes.
-- Titus:
(Titus Flavius) Vespasian & Titus (Flavius Vespasian) "who both shared same names"?

I should probably leave this next very uncertain/unsure/dubious one out:

-- Cletus:
"martyrology/martyred/martyr" [though this seems very dubious in some of their own orthodox sources].
-- Titus:
By inversion:
40,000 Jews killed at Yodfat.
1,100,000 killed during siege of Jerusalem [or during entire Jewish revolt?] (majority of them Jews).
10000-25000 died in Vesuvius/Pompeii event.
Death toll unknown for fire (& plague) of 80ad
100 days of gladiator games.
Somethink Domitian may have killed Titus?
Jewish sources suggest Titus died after being effected by an insect for 7 yrs?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2015 at 05:49
Let us try just taking each one little thing at a time then.

You can not see that "pope" Pius has the same name as emperor Antoninus Pius?

---------

Let us try just taking each one little thing at a time then.

You can not see that "pope" Pius (140/142/146 to 154/155/157/161) has practically the same rule date(s) as emperor Antoninus Pius (138-148-156-161.)?
(Both ruled great 140-161. Only difference is piddly 138-140.)
 
--------

Let us try just taking each one little thing at a time then.

You can not see that "pope" Pius died at the same age of 74 as emperor Antoninus Pius?

--------

Let us try just taking each one little thing at a time then.

You can not see that "pope" Pius born in "81 ad" is very close to emperor Antoninus Pius born in 86 ad?
(And all the more so if we consider that both died at age 74, and that in some versions "Pope Pius" end date is same date 161 as the emperor.)



Edited by truthsetsfree - 29 Nov 2015 at 05:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2015 at 04:07
We have just done a rough new ebook so that people can see the Popes and Emperors chapters all in order.

http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?ForumID=11

scroll down the alphabetical list to books beginning with letter T.

If anything happens to it or to me.... (I have been worried this last two days that i have possibly been poisoned (delivered water, or 1 of 2 delivered foods). But the problem is there are other things it could be so i am not sure and not easy to work out. Main symptom/s is dry/burning/ulcer mouth/lips. Might just be bacteria from not good cleanliness, or dehydration, or from blood pressure, but i have never had it this bad or like this before.)

If anyone wants to post a backup copy of the ebook here too that is fine by me. (I can't as i once tried posting ebook here before when AE was down [or when i though it was still down but wasn't and it was some strange problem not being able to get there by direct link in address bar] but didn't seem to be able to no matter what i tried.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2015 at 10:17
What am I searching for? I'm not. I just don't see any academic reality in what  you suggest. You see, if you want make these connections based on spurious similarities well that's fine, but any factual information that seperates the two individuals ruins your concept at root. Since some of the connections you make are nothing more than juggling symbols and words, I don't see any academic value. The scope of your concept is too big for a start. It's implausible that these parallels have lasted for so long in history without anyone else noticing. Since you haven't dealt with any in detail (and you can't, because the detail will reinforce the differences), there's nothing but your endless lists of similarities which I can't see as historically valid.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2015 at 21:08
The hero of Virgil's poem the Aeneid is Aeneas who is known for his piety to the gods, in other words, piety is a good old fashioned Roman virtue, in fact, probably _the_ most good old fashioned virtue because Aeneas is probably the most famous Roman hero (originally from Troy).
But truthsetsfree, it is interesting what you point out, Antoninus Pius was named Pius by the Roman Senate, and Pope Pius I became Pope a couple years later.  Popes choose their name, and so I could imagine Pope Pius somehow choosing his name in response to Antoninus Pius.  Piety would be different between the Roman Emperor and the Pope, as it would different between paganism and Christianity.  So in a way, _maybe_ the Pope is denying the Emperor's claim to piety??  _That_ I could imagine, but I wouldn't place money on it (then again, I don't bet under any circumstances, I once had a friend that wanted to bet me that Venus had moons, no, for those of you who might not know, Venus does not have moons).
I think that we can acknowledge that the Popes can choose their name to emphasize some aspect of the Church during their time of office.  Pope Francis I is a good example.  For a long time, the church was fairly inbred (so to speak), having Pope after Italian Pope, but early on they may have used that naming convention better.  On the other hand, maybe the naming convention wasn't adopted until later.  Not being up on my Roman Catholic history (which is not _my_ history), I don't really know.
Wikipedia says that there are no really good sources on Antoninus Pius.  I don't see them as being both the same individual, but just maybe there was an influence from one to the other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2015 at 23:10

Caldrail:

"No academic reality"?

They are not "spurious similiarities"

What "factual information that separates the two"?

No one has "ruin[ed] [my] concept at root"

It is not "juggling symbols and words". Pope Pius and Emperor Antoninus Pius have exactly the same names, and rule dates, and age they died at, etc.

It doesn't matter if no one else *supposedly* hasn't noticed them for thousand or so years. The only thing that matters is the evidence and that it is openly and objectively considered and weighed. How do you know that no one else has noticed or known? (No one knew that Roosevelt was in a wheel chair.) How do we know what date the popes list was (really) created? There have been other discoveries of things that "haven't been noticed" that have been made by others in the last hundred years, i don't see you junking them.

"Haven't dealt with any in detail"? I just posted an ebook full of details matches evidences/proofs on the first 16 "popes" and emperors.

What does "too big" have to do with anything? We have dealt with each one smallest single detail (of dozens) for each One matching  pope and emperor in the new ebook. How is the fact that Pius and Antoninus Pius have exact same name, and date, and age died at, etc "too big scope"?

The looking into more detail has not "reinforced the differences". On the contrary, the more yous have forced me to go through all the biographies collating even more matches evidences (but objectively making seeing if there is not any contradiction), the much more stronger/starker the whole thesis has been found to be by us.

They are not "endless lists". There are only 16 chapters so far and each chapter is far shorter than the biographies on the popes and the bios on the emperors that yous forced me to have to go through the last 3 or so days (getting heart pains again for such excessive stress and work).

So far you just post mere words objections and not dealt with any pope or emperor detail match (excluding Jesus). Please show me how Pius and Antoninus Pius are impossible to be the same, and how our stark matches between the two is only "spurious similarities" / "superficial".

franciscosan:

Thank you for actually talking about an actual Pope & Emperor match a little bit.

Sorry if this unintentionally comes-across as antagonistic, i am merely extremely pressured by time and other problems.

"Pope Pius" can not have just copied or chosen his name etc from (or been influenced by) Antoninus Pius. They both have too many quality matches like died exactly the same age. And if there is enough evidence to suggest that then why dosn't that then mean it is posisble that they are the same and that the popes list creators are the ones that copied the pope from the emperor?

It is not "he became pope a couple of years later" (after AP's accession date). In some versions of Pius dates they are excatly the same.

Ours is based on stark matches between the two. It is mere speculation that the "pope" could have emulated the emperor. There is no verifed historical proof of the existence of Pope Pius 1.

How can they not be the same person? They have exactly the same names, dates, ages of death, etc, and matching predecessors and successors. See the 'Pius = Antoninus Pius' chapter in the ebook.

Pope Pius has no other known name other than Pius.

Pius & Antoninus have stark matches; Aeneas & Pius do not have anywhere near as quality and quantity matches.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 02:04
I think that your are cherry-picking your dates a little, for Pius one date is like 140 to 154, 142 or 146 to 157 or 161.  If you are choosing one date for the beginning of his bishop-ry, then it should be matched up with the matching date for his death, unless there is a specific chronological reason for choosing one in one column and another date in the other column.

Antoninus Pius was married with 4 children, when his wife died he had the Senate deify her and built a temple to her.  He also persuaded the Senate to deify Hadrian.  Something that would not have happened without his efforts, since Hadrian had been persecuting some of the Senators at the time of his death.

You might look up piety in Wikipedia, it will give you an idea of what the Romans meant by piety and pious (noun and adjective).  It is loyalty to the family and the state, very different than what the Christians meant by piety.  Aeneas (who is pre-Roman, refugee from the Trojan War) ties the Romans in 'history' to the enemies of the Greeks (but thus to Greek culture and Greek mythology), the Trojans.
Aeneas saved his father from the sack of Troy, and in his loyalty to his people, he set off to found a new home, which was the foundation of the Latins, and which eventually became Rome.  "Pius Aeneas" would be what we might call the Roman 'archtype' for piety,' according to Virgil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 14:11
You can not dispute that "Pope Pius 1" has exact same name as emperor Antoninus Pius (who by the way some Marcus Aurelius / Lucius Verus biographies call "Pius" without the Antoninus).

You can not deny that Pope Pius and Antoninus Pius both are stated to have died at the same age of "74".

You can not deny that both Pope Pius and Antoninus Pius are both associated with date 11th of July.

You can not deny that the Pope Pius and Antoninus Pius both ruled 140-161.
Pope Pius dates from all different sources are 140/142/146-154/155/157/161. You can not say that "cherry picking" is any more likely than meaningful match.
Antoninus Pius reigned 138-148-156-161. That is a match of 21 years (140-161) and only a difference of 2 years (138-140) (and that two years is only for the emperor : Pope Pius' rule dates are all within the Emperors dates).
Pius 140 to 154 is totally within Antoninus Pius dates; and Pius 140-154 matches emp. A.P. 138-156 with both dates exactly same 2 years difference.
Pius "142/146 - 157/161" is also totally within the emperor's reign dates, and Pius' 157 matches AP's 156, Pius' 161 matches AP's 161, Pius' 146 matches AP's 148, and Pius' 142 may match AP's 138.

Other Popes & Emperors also have similar exact matches too, if people bother to read the ebook rather than forcing me to have to write it all again here. [Look i understand that yous don't want to do any work/effort (as my ebook is still not the easiest to read), but I have already just done days/week work and now you want to make me do it again rewriting what i already just wrote this last days/week.]

And as i have already said umpteen times, there are going to be some superficial differences because it was a Lie and they couldn't just make it too obvious could they? [and their records at the time were not all exact/accurate. And there is a few juggled-by-them-not-by-me because they omitted some emperors. Some emperors co-ruled at times.]

Thankyou for the tip on meaning of pious/piety. But since the pope and emperor had exactly the same name "Pius" it isn't really necessary.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 14:21
Look that is :
Pius  142/146-157/161.
AP    138-148-156-161.
and/or,
Pius   140     -     154.
AP     138(-148)-156(-161).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2015 at 20:14
I am sure English speaking countries are full of John´s, George´s, Ian´s, Jones´s and Jack´s. Mostof them has not much in common except their names.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2015 at 02:35
What you have sounds a little like Fomenko.  Fomenko is kind of amusing, but "real" history, with all its flaws and characters is much more interesting.  I am sure you'll disagree with my assessment, but regardless of whether Antoninus' name is "Pius," I don't see a Pope as someone who would deify his wife Faustina, and his adoptive father, Hadrian.  Antoninus is pious by _Roman_ standards, which is something entirely different from the standards of the Catholic Church.  Again, I could see Pius I adopting his name in response to Antoninus Pius, but I am not sure there is any evidence even for that.  I don't see them as the same person.  If one has a common name, inevitably one will someone with the same name in the same class as oneself.  Statistically, that means that for a particular year, that name was probably more popular than others.  Onomastics also would get into that kind of data.

I have been studying ancient Greek coinage and Pythagoras for the last 15 years, and I am still not certain about all my theories.  I find you amusing that you think that you can come up with a theory in a few weeks and have it born full grown like Athena from the head of Zeus.  You complain that people want you to do more work, well yes, if that is what it takes for you to coherently state your theory.  Far from setting us free, the Truth demands a lot from us.  There is a lot of failure and deadends in speculation when considering new theories.  Or at least that is what I have found for myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2015 at 03:30

franciscosan:

What that is that. Its hopeless me replying here anymore. No matter what stark evidences/proofs we present you (and in simplest possible way to see (not all "incoherent")) is just totally ignored/evaded/dismissed. You are all either being far too unfairly harshly, or else are secretly working for the Vatican.

"Pope" Pius 1 and emperor Antoninus Pius have the exact same names, exact same reign dates, exact same ages died at, exact same 11 july date, and many other matching details.
So do many other "popes" and emperors have similar exact/stark details matches.
(All shown in the new ebook (which although is not overly "coherent", it is not that d*mn "incoherent").

No one has proven the existence of "pope" Pius 1 or any other early "popes". No one has disproven any of our matches/evidences/proofs.

I would i owe you[s] a half apology and half thanks. Looking back from now, the previous tables etc were a little weak compared to the new ebook matches evidences now. But since yous are all still intent on being my arch-enemies i don't feel like acknowledging you have any fair share of credit.

Its nothing like Fomenko. He says all history before 800 ad is fake, and he contracts or folds over history like Velikovsky. We have not contracted history at all. The two lists correspond without any changing of chronology.

I told you already many times that the early "popes" are fake. They were not real "popes". They were really emperors / pontiffex maximus.

You are just using any imperfection of mine (my "incoherence") as an unfair excuse to keep us and our discovery/thesis stamped down in the ground.
People seem to have no trouble understanding me half the time, and then the other half the time claim can't understand me.

Yes i am not a very good writer, but it is just viciously cruel to make me feel so bad that i wish i was dead, and make me suffer and stomping our thesis into the dirt (not in sense of disproven because no one has (though people will try to claim we haven't proven it), but in sense of refusing any consideration and trying to keep it covered up).

We have proven it. The only dispute here is whether it really is too "incoherently" communicated for anyone to be able to read/understand it.

fantastus:

The stark matches evidences/proofs (as shown in the ebook) totally nullifies such shallow assertion.

One day everyone will pay for all their crimes against me all my "life" (even if there is no God), regardless of how "bad/sick/dumb/wrong" or "incoherent" etc i am or supposedly am.
You are not gods or God. Regardless of your genetics, technology, etc.

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truthsetsfree View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2015 at 05:28

"Pope" Pius 1 = emperor Antoninus Pius.

(AP = Antoninus Pius.)

Both have exact same name.
"Pope" Pius 1: His name is Pius. (He has no other known name. There is some suggestion in some sources of "Anicetus Pius".)
Emperor Antoninus Pius: His name is Antoninus Pius. Some sources just call him Pius.
(Both persons have same name, and are the same date, so the names mean the same thing regardless of slightly different meanings of modern "pious" and ancient "piety". There is no proof of existence of a/the Pope Pius 1, so the claim that piety has different meanings in the church and in secular is weak.)

Both have (almost) the exact same reign dates.
"Pope" Pius 1 reigned 140/142/146-154/155/157/161 (or, "140-154/155, or 142/146-157/161").
Emp Antoninus Pius reigned 138-(148-156/157)-161. (148 was highlight of his reign, when was the 900th anniversary of foundation of Rome. 156/157 is when AP turned 70 and had ability/health difficulties, and Marcus Aurelius (who succeeded him) took on more administartive duties.)
Look at how the 4 dates of both persons closely correspond:
Pius: 142/146-157/161.
AP:   138-148-157-161.
Or,
Pius:  140-155.
AP:    138-156(-161).
(AP = Antoninus Pius.)

Both died at the same age of 74.
"Pope" Pius died at age "74".
Antoninus Pius died at age "74".

Both are connected with the same date 11 July.
"Pope" Pius: feast day 11 July. (Reign ended 11 July 155. Reign started 11 Jan 140.)
Antoninus Pius: came to throne on 10/11 July 138.
The only difference is that one is when reign started, other is when reign ended.

Both birth dates are very close (only ~4 years difference).
"Pope" Pius was born "81" ad.
Antoninus Pius was born 86 ad.
This is all the more close when we consider that both died at age 74, and that in some versions "pope" Pius reign end date is same date (161) as Antoninus Pius reign end date (161). The ~4 years difference could alternatively/also be explained by  that Pope Pius died age 74 in 155/157 in some versions, and Antoninus Pius turned 70 in 156 (when Marcus Aurelius took more admin duties).

Both are connected with freed/enfranchised slaves.
"Pope" Pius: it is said that he may have been a freedman or former slave.
Antoninus Pius: passed measures to facilitate the enfranchisement of slaves; favoured the principle of favor libertatis, giving the putative freedman the benefit of the doubt when the claim to freedom was not clearcut.

Both built religious buildings:
"Pope" Pius built 1 or 2 churches.
Antoninus Pius constructed temple / built temples.

Both have matching predecessors (& successors):
"Pope" Pius preceded by "Hyginus" (who matches Hadrian(us)).
Antoninus Pius preceded by Hadrian(us) (who matches Hyginus).
(It is not just similar names matches of the two predecessors. They have half a dozen to a dozen quality details matches similar to "Pope" Pius & emp Antoninus Pius matches.)

Some other matches in the ebook chapter on Pius & Antoninus Pius.

If this is still considered "incoherent" (or "not full sentences" or "raw data" or "endless lists", or "cherry picking", or "juggling dates etc", or "humans naturally seeing patterns", or "superficial", or "spurious similarities", or "only the similarities and not the differences", or "pope Pius could have just copied/emulated emperor A.P.", or "like Fomenko", or "not done homework", or "unorthodox theories", or "manipulating coincidal data", or "nothing in common except the intials JC", or etc) then either/both you and/or i are hopeless, or, what will convince you that they are not different but are the same then?

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caldrail View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2015 at 10:28
-- Callistus:
Connected with "pope" "Victor".
-- Caracalla:
Connected with military? [Alexander mimic/mania?]

Well let's see....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Callixtus_I

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracalla

Here we have two identifiably seperate people.

identified with "Victor". Certainly. Pope Victor gave him a pension.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Victor_I

Caracalla, as Caesar, partially depended on popular military support for survival, and indeed, he was one of the Caesars who genuinely were popular with soldiers. However he wasn't popular with everyone, and was assassinated as he went to the toilet on the roadside on campaign against Persia. His assassin tried to get away but was killed by loyal cavalrymen who gave chase.

So as I said, under detailed investigation your suppositions fall apart. Please take the hint. There's nothing wrong with developing a theory, but if its nothing more than "spot the parallel", it will not survive academic criticism.


http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2015 at 20:06
Truthsetsfree, I would humbly suggest that you accept that in life some people are not going to agree with you, that doesn't mean that they are bad people, that doesn't mean that they are in league with the Vatican.  That means that for factual reasons, theoretical reasons or even emotional reasons, they don't agree with your assessment.  People are emotionally and intellectually complex and even if they reach the same conclusion, if you examine their thought processes, you'll sometimes see that they probably even got there in different ways.
Now you can either rant about crimes against you and assume that everyone is malicious, or you can reject the assumption that everyone has to be either for or against you, because that really results in just your isolation from others.  I suggest that you be generous, and even if you can't see why people disagree with you, you should understand that they sometimes will disagree, and it doesn't mean that they are malicious.  Good people can agree to disagree on many matters. 
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