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Confucius, Legalism, Taoism

Printed From: WorldHistoria Forum
Category: REGIONAL HISTORY
Forum Name: East Asia
Forum Description: The Far East: China, Korea, Japan and other nearby civilizations
URL: http://www.worldhistoria.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=129844
Printed Date: 16 Dec 2019 at 07:07
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Confucius, Legalism, Taoism
Posted By: Athena
Subject: Confucius, Legalism, Taoism
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 07:54
Confucius  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

Legalism   https://www.ancient.eu/Legalism/ - https://www.ancient.eu/Legalism/

Taoism  http://factsanddetails.com/china/cat3/sub10/item91.html - http://factsanddetails.com/china/cat3/sub10/item91.html

Challenge- pick one or more of these belief systems and explain how the beliefs are compatible with Christian and democratic values.   



Replies:
Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 14:51
Right now, I am girding up my loins! and preparing myself for your challenge, but not yet.....


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2019 at 13:30
I do not necessarily see much of a similarity between any of the three Eastern ways of thought (Confucius), (Legalism), or Taoism and democracy and Christianity.  Not that they could never mix, people mix things all the time that are odd, like pregnant women and pickles and ice cream.  Such a mixture may be syncretic, but that has happened in past, and will happen again the future.  


Posted By: Rainman136
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 17:36
儒家、法家和道家这是三种中国传统政治哲学理论体系,和西方的基£教和民主有一定的共同点,但是很多部分是矛盾对立的,不太可能兼容。
Hello,I am a teacher, teaching history in Mainland China. Be glad to answer your question.
In my view,Confucianism, Legalism and Taoism are  three theoretical systems of traditional Chinese political philosophy. They have some common ground with Christianity and democracy, but many parts are contradictory and incompatible, which is unlikely to be compatible.


Posted By: Rainman136
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 17:40
孔子从没有主张过民主,法家和道家也没有。墨家倒是和基£教有更多的相似之处,但是自汉朝以后基本消失了。
Confucius never advocated democracy, neither did Legalists nor Taoists. Mohism has more similarities with Christianity, but it had disappeared since Han Dynasty.


Posted By: Rainman136
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 17:52
现在的中国政府还是以法家治理国家,民主只是摆设和标签。看看最近中国大陆对于香港抗议的报道就知道了。北京政府称香港的抗议为暴乱,是搅乱国家稳定的运动。我们大陆人有点眼界和文化的,私下里批评政府专制;但是绝大部分民众,尤其是没有文化的下层民众,根本不知道香港的运动的实质,也不知道追求民主。网民几乎都拥护中央镇压“暴乱”,最近几年习近平和中国共产党在普通百姓当中的威信很高。
At present, the Chinese government still governs the country by Legalists, and democracy is only a  kind of decoration and label. Just look at the recent reports of protests in Hong Kong in mainland China. The Beijing government calls Hong Kong's protest a riot and a movement to destabilize the country. Mainland Chinese, who have vision and culture, criticize the autocracy of the government in private; however, most of the people, especially the lower class without culture, do not know the essence of Hong Kong's movement.They never know to pursuit democracy. Almost all netizens support central government's suppression of riots. In recent years, Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party have high prestige among ordinary people.


Posted By: Rainman136
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 17:59
Many of my colleagues and I are very dissatisfied with the corruption and autocracy of the government and school leaders, and believe that the degradation of Chinese society is the result of their rule. But we dare not to be angry or express our opinions in public, because leaders and police will criticize us, suppress us, even borrow us and arrest us. How unfortunate we are!


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2019 at 12:37
I have never studied Confucian or Daoist works, one problem for a Westerner, particularly an American, is the vastness of Chinese history and how to put such ideas in context.  The US is 200+ years old.  China is 4000 (?) years old!  For someone who likes old things (partially because we don't have really old things in America), I am in awe of the depth of Chinese culture and puzzled over Chinese rejection of it, in the Cultural Revolution.  I feel that the rejection was unfortunate, but perhaps for China, necessary in order to modernize.  Some good things were rejected, but of course, bad things too.  Foot binding for example was a very bad thing (fortunately) rejected.  I tend to think that, in life what happens is a mixed bag, mixed good and bad, bad and good.  China has a lot of baggage, I feel for her.  It will be hard to match up long standing habits with new things like democracy.  Democracy is not without its problems.  The British Winston Churchill said that 'democracy is the worst form of government, except all others.'

You might look up the American word isonomy, based on the Greek world, isonomia.  Isonomia means equality under the law.  Herodotus uses it and I think that it is a better expression than "democratia" or rule of the demos.  Rule of the demos threatens to fall into mob rule, I imagine that is part of what some fear from riots in Hong Kong.  That seems to me, emotionally easy to understand that view, even if one knows in an intellectual manner more about the situation.  It is very hard to address that 'emotionalism,' but if you can, I think an answer will arise.  I hope for you, and China, an answer will arise.



Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2019 at 14:15
Originally posted by Rainman136 Rainman136 wrote:

especially the lower class without culture, do not know the essence of Hong Kong's movement.They never know to pursuit democracy. Almost all netizens support central government's suppression of riots. In recent years, Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party have high prestige among ordinary people.
Is there a unifying bond among the classes with less culture? 

Are the country people Buddhists?

Is the confidence in CCP due to economic opportunity?

franciscosan is too right, China emits a majestic and frightening power. The wildlife, geography, rituals, art and cuisine all seem dreamlike. There is an immensity to the history that is hard to fathom.  
There can be a great will to make changes, a unification of the collective unconscious and action throughout history have favored the bold who act when the political time is ripe. Maybe the time is coming sooner than anyone would predict. 


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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 14:32
Dante, the Italian poet wrote his Divine Comedy, there were three parts, the Inferno, Purgatory and Paradise.  In the Inferno, Dante was lead by the Roman poet down through the levels of hell.  One thing that Dante did was put his enemies in hell.  The there is the Purgatory which are the noble pagans (not Christian and then there is Paradise.

I mention it, because one can always do a new version of the Inferno, and have the righteous 'capitalist' or democrats or whatever, helping the good people working toward a final Paradise.  I seem to remember that the Chinese have rich images of hell.  Could put all the embezzlers etc. in there.



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