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consent laws

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Forum Name: The Minefield
Forum Description: Controversial topics.
URL: http://www.worldhistoria.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=129774
Printed Date: 17 Oct 2019 at 20:27
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Topic: consent laws
Posted By: franciscosan
Subject: consent laws
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2018 at 13:08
Apparently, there are some silly consent laws out there.

In California you are supposed to verbally give consent at each stage of a romantic 'involvement,' and you cannot legally give consent if you are intoxicated, which means you can have two people having sex who are technically raping each other.  Those people could also be married (and intoxicated and raping each other).

Maybe the left's real goal is to ruin all the fun in sex, and make the population go down.

Jordan Peterson pointed out the California absurdity. 



Replies:
Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2018 at 04:37
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Apparently, there are some silly consent laws out there.

In California you are supposed to verbally give consent at each stage of a romantic 'involvement,' and you cannot legally give consent if you are intoxicated, which means you can have two people having sex who are technically raping each other.  Those people could also be married (and intoxicated and raping each other).

Maybe the left's real goal is to ruin all the fun in sex, and make the population go down.

Jordan Peterson pointed out the California absurdity. 

I think Cosby was just as intoxicated as the ladies he was having sex with and lost more than few memories himself. No one will ever get together if people have to telegraph their intentions in triplicate. Remember the novel Brave New World? Might-en we over-correct? We could end up with a society that is repulsed by sexual contact. 


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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2018 at 19:07
"No" means "No", sometimes at least. But females need to be protected by law prohibiting predatory behaviour by men.

I'm always a little suspicious about complaints made 30 or 40 years after the event.

In Cosby's case, it's not realistic to expect an 80+ year old person to remember what may or may not have happened  so long ago. This poses the question "Can a man reasonably defend himself" in these circumstances. And of course when the accused is very wealthy, the motive for making the complaint could be financial rather than outrage.

As you say, when one or both parties are under the influence of alcohol or drugs, the facts can be very cloudy.


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“The biggest surprise in a man’s life is old age.”


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2018 at 10:17
From what I understand, Cosby was slipping a little something extra into the woman's drink.  It is not like a "he's drunk and she's drunk and he said, and she said."  More like, she is drunk and drugged.  He apparently had enough sobriety to slip her a micky.

I don't think that whether Cosby remembers should play any role in accessing criminality, but all cases except one were beyond the statute of limitations.  He has a lawyer to defend him.  He 'played' a game with the young ladies when he was younger, and part of that game was betting it wouldn't catch up with him.  I don't think he should be let off just because it caught up with him in his dotage.  I don't think that the Lockerbie bomber should have been let out just because he was infirm either.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2018 at 10:25
Quote He apparently had enough sobriety to slip her a micky.
 Wink

I used Cosby only as an example.

Lack of memory, of course, doesn't excuse criminality, my point was that anyone on those circumstances would be hard pressed (no pun intended) to remember, with clarity, something that may, or may not, have happened 30-40 years ago, thereby creating a situation where they cannot properly defend themselves in court.

Anyway, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year mate.


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“The biggest surprise in a man’s life is old age.”


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2018 at 12:47
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't think he should be let off just because it caught up with him in his dotage.  I don't think that the Lockerbie bomber should have been let out just because he was infirm either.
It seems that even after Andrea Constand won a civil suit against Cosby, the public outrage was limited. The momentum of his public condemnation really began when the comedian Hannibal Buress talked about Cosby in his stand up comedy routine. Buress was very annoyed at Cosby criticizing young black people for how they dress, speak etc and for moralizing about how black parents should be raising their children. That is how many people first heard about what Cosby had been doing that was in 2006.

“I want to just at least make it weird for you to watch ‘Cosby Show’ reruns,” Buress said. “If you don’t know about it, trust me. When you leave here, Google ‘Bill Cosby rape.’ That sh*t has more results than Hannibal Buress.”

What bothers me is accepting the idea that so many women came forward after Buress is on youtube.
Yes, Cosby has to be in prison he was convicted I agree, just doubting the pile on seems to be more about Cosby's moralizing to black people and him being completely crushed by the backlash. And it seems that's what had to happen.


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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2018 at 13:07
It is interesting how many black performers, which get made up as heroes, have feet of clay.
It is also interesting how they are often touted as heroes, and then get crucified.  Part of the problem is that because of their celebrity, they are promoted as having a moral authority that they, in 20/20 hindsight, don't have.  Oh, I consider athlete's as performers as well.

It is interesting how some people who look on themselves as gadflies cannot take a joke, or a little criticism for that matter.  It is true of people at the left pole, (from whence everybody and everything else looks "right.")


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2018 at 13:41
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote He apparently had enough sobriety to slip her a micky.
 Wink

I used Cosby only as an example.

Lack of memory, of course, doesn't excuse criminality, my point was that anyone on those circumstances would be hard pressed (no pun intended) to remember, with clarity, something that may, or may not, have happened 30-40 years ago, thereby creating a situation where they cannot properly defend themselves in court.

Anyway, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year mate.
Happy New Year!
Agree, no excuses. But 30 years after taking all those Quaaludes, he can't remember much. 
Maybe that is part of the reason why he kept on doing it.


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Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2018 at 14:57
Quote It is interesting how many black performers, which get made up as heroes, have feet of clay.

And it's not the black performers, if my memory serves me correctly, most of the recent revelations have been about white males.


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“The biggest surprise in a man’s life is old age.”



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