How can one know it all?
Printed From: WorldHistoria Forum
Category: REGIONAL HISTORY
Forum Name: Multiple Region
Forum Description: General aspects of world history, especially topics that span across many regions or periods.
URL: http://www.worldhistoria.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=129727
Printed Date: 08 Aug 2020 at 20:01
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Topic: How can one know it all?
Posted By: JonyBandana
Subject: How can one know it all?
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 12:40
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Disclaimer: This is not a stupid question. Ok, so my basic question is: How can one know about everything, without knowing everything when it comes to history? At first glance it seems stupid, but let me give you an example: The gunpowder plot was a really interesting event in history, yet not everyone knows about it, because the only ways to know are:
I'm sure there are more ways, but you get the idea. So basically what I want know, is there a book (textbook or not) that can give you a general idea of the most influential things that happened throughout history, or at least large periods of it? Something that doesn't go into unnecesary details, yet it tells you the gist of it all, in case you want to investigate more. That's basically it. Thanks for any help you can provide! |
Replies:
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 20:57
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Once upon a time books called Encyclopaedia provided us with a fairly good grasp on many subjects, but they were always out of date before they were published. These days we have the internet, the greatest collection of information, to which we all basically have access, that the world has ever seen, and even the net is not up to date. People will always explore that which puzzles or interests them, and so we gain knowledge that we may not ever need or use, but it's there in our brain, for the day that we do want it. Question: "How much do you know?" Answer: "About what?" Question: "Anything," And there's only one answer. "I don't know." So, Google it!  ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: JonyBandana
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2018 at 23:53
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@toyomotor: Thanks for the reply. I see what you mean, but how do I look for things that I don't know exist? I believe that's one of the reasons why books exist. As an example, I like computer science. Recently I bought a book called "Computer Science: An overview". The first thing you read is this:
Is there something like that for history?
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Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 00:04
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If you are studying on your own it might be helpful to focus on authoritative sources that will lead you to individuals. Individuals and the branches of their influence expand the view further. Looking at a who's who in computer science and cross referencing authors help subject by subject. Find an outline and exhaust your understanding of each topic, Lastly, keep coming back and share your questions here between us we have something valuable to offer on many subjects. I admire your self motivated pursuit of knowledge. ------------- Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien) |
Posted By: JonyBandana
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 06:42
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@Vanuatu: Thanks for your reply and kind words! I'm not sure I understand your post. I don't want to study the history of computer science, I wan to learn more about the history of the world. I'll continue my Guy Fawkes example: When I read the comic "V for Vendetta" I wanted to know:  Who is this cool guy Guy that inspired this comic?How did the writer hear about this?After that I started wondering, how many like him are out there that I don't know about, yet others do? How can I find this exemplary humans? Then I came to the conclussion that googling everything was impossible since I didn't know what to look for, and googling "awesome humans that lived in the past" would land me in a never ending cascade of sensasionalist articles, so I though a book (or even better, a textbook) would be the way to go. In short, I'm looking for a book called "Someone. History of the World: An Overview. 999th ed., Humanity, 2019.", and I wanted to know if you guys had any recommendations. (By the way, it doesn't need to be in spanish.)
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Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 09:58
hahaha you might get used to it.
Then it's Oxford for history in my opinion. The Oxford Handbook of World History presents thirty-one articles by leading historians on the most important issues explored by contemporary world historians. These broadly fall into four categories: conceptions of the global past, themes in world history, processes of world history, and regions in world history. Oxford Handbook of World History - Oxford Handbooks http://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199235810.001.0001/oxfordh�" rel="nofollow - www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199235810.001.0001/oxfordh� �� *there are free versions of Oxford handbooks online ------------- Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien) |
Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 25 Jun 2018 at 15:20
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I like "Who was When? A Dictionary of Contemporaries" by Mirriam Allen de Ford, The H.W Wilson Company NY 1950. It is a charts of years listed down, starting with 500 BC, 495 BC... and then categories like Government and Law, Military and Naval Affairs, Philosophy and Religion, Science and Medicine, Literature, Painting and Sculpture, etc. across. for the boxes there are names of person/people and beside them usually b. or d. (or fl. for flourish??). It is fun to see who was contemporary with who. What you don't know can be as important as what you do know, because knowing <some thing> can block you from learning <some thing> else. For example, it used to be that it was assumed you had to learn Latin before you learned ancient Greek. But now with people learning ancient Greek before learning Latin, one can see that people used to have blinders on, a Latin filter about what ancient Greek culture was, and now people without that filter are learning new things about ancient Greek culture. If you don't know something at all, you can't learn it (you don't know it exists), and if you do know something, you can't learn it (because you already know it). It is just in a very interest position of knowing enough, including that you don't know (it) that you can learn (it). Oxford defines modern history as anything after the Norman invasion (seriously). |
Posted By: JonyBandana
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 07:51
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Sorry for the late response. Between the world cup, college,
Fallout 4 and Netflix I don't even have time to open my browser. Except
when my homepage is Netflix. Heh, just kidding. My homepage is YouTube. Anyways, @Vanuatu:
Thanks for the recommendation. I've been looking into that book and
found a PDF version (not even sure if it's supposed to be free, but what
the heck, I just want to check it out). It has a very strange format. It's definitely not what I'm used to. I'm going to write it down as an alternative, but I don't know if it's for me. I don't think it's bad, but would it kill them to add a few images?  Learning alone is hard enough! However, from all the research I've done, it seems like the best candidate. By
the way, I think something happened to your link, so this is the real
one:
http://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199235810.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199235810
. @franciscosan: That seems like something I'd
be interested in. Sadly, the book seems rather unpopular. I don't think
it'd be easy to get it in Argentina. In spanish or otherwise. I found a http://www.historycentral.com/dates/" rel="nofollow - similar website though. Very nice project.
I agree. That's why I want a book. It can tell me what's out there, so I can later research further if I'm interested. --- I'll
keep looking and come back to ask your opinions. In the meantime I'll
read the Oxford book and see if that's what I'm looking for.
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Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 11:45
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Hi With Oxford, research encyclopedias, archaic texts and scholarly reviews have a library format and Oxford expects you to register and probably pay for content but searching under Oxford by subject will produce information and images. ------------- Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien) |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2018 at 15:56
Regardless of how much you read or listen to, no human being can know everything-ever!  ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: JonyBandana
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 04:12
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@Vanuatu: Yes it seems that way. Anyways I was trying to determine if I was gonna buy it or not, so not harm done. @toyomotor: I agree. That's why I said
I just want to read from someone who knows a lot, who, in turn, read from someone like that as well. It's not everything, but it's a start :)
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Posted By: JonyBandana
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 14:31
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Hi guys. I know it's been a long time, but I found this great book and I thought of the forum. Maybe someone will come looking for the same and find this thread and the book. I found this book on world history which is great and covers lots of topics, while being reasonably short. The book is called "Glencoe World History." I bought the digital edition and will copy and paste the contents in case anyone is interested.
Thanks everyone!
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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 17:49
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The book index cannot open as it's not in the form of a link. The index is of no value because we can't access the contents. How about posting your thoughts about the book's contents? ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: JonyBandana
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 02:25
Sorry? I don't know what you meant about the link thing. Also, I don't think I'm capable of reviewing the contents since I haven't even started reading it. The book covers some very interesting topics and has some cool features. For example, a map of the distribution of the major languages, the evolution of the English language, a distribution of religions, a brief description of each one, etc. Basically, the "index of features" takes about 4 pages. Some of the features go from understanding maps to understanding statistics, making desicions, comparisons, distinguishing between fact and opinion, using email, evaluating a website, among a large variety of actual history topics, of course. Honestly, it has so much stuff that it's hard to describe. It's unlike any textbook I've seen. The whole Glencoe series are this way. It's a shame they seem to have been discontinued.
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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 09:49
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By creating a hyperlink, others can access the particular web site. If I understand you correctly, you're talking about a text book, rather than an internet web site. Sorry, but your post is more advertising than informative. toyomotor Moderator. ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: JonyBandana
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 10:35
It is also the answer to my question. It seems you have been partially reading my posts since the beginning of the thread. How is it advertising if the book has been discontinued and I'm not recommending or linking to any particular vendor? Is wanting to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of a particular book advertising? |
Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 10:56
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I am glad Mr. Bandana, that you have found something to be enthusiastic about. I hope that you can read it, in whole or in part, and come back to tell us about it. I would also suggest that you give bibliographical data, so that if someone wants to check it out, they might be able to do so. [author], Title, (press, place of publication, year), you can also add editors or translators. Such a grand narrative has its advantages and its disadvantages. It can only address the most basic features, it has to sacrifice all nuances because the shortage and generality of the sections. But, it can make a good start.
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Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 11:25
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Mr. Bandana, if you weren't advertising, then just say so, and start to discuss the book. I would say that you were promoting the book, and some people might confuse that with advertising. Don't worry about it. It is odd though, to say that you haven't started to read it. Sounds like an experiment with hypertext, being an online book? with added features? I'm not sure what kind of a creature it is. Although from what you say, maybe an extinct creature. Have you gotten a hold of one, can you get a hold of one? It might be interesting to know _of_ such things, even if they are discontinued.
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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 15:18
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I agree with Fransciscosan's latest post. Your post contains no information which can be discussed on the forum. I also suggest that you read the book and then tell us all about it. ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 14:24
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This is a history forum, we cannot know everything, but I think one thing we can do is have some key dates as posts to hang our banner from, what are key dates that you like to use? One I like to use is 480 BC battle of Salamis, before that is the Greek Archaic age, after that is the Greek Classical age. The Attic Tragedian Aeschylus wanted to be remembered for fighting in Salamis.
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Posted By: doskinas
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 19:10
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There is no way to know it all. The best bet would be the libraries were you could read all and everything about the history. Of course there are some tools online to explore the History and learn about it. Such as Wikipedia - tho it is not primary source. Also Encyclopedia Britannica. There is also new projects coming out like Everipedia or Historia. Who aim to record the history of these days for the sake of the future. Do check them out. ------------- |
Posted By: Athena
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2019 at 04:58
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There is no one source for history, but history is a matter of point of view and there are many different points of view. A huge problem in Palestine and Israel is they have different schools for their children and each teaches history differently. They will never resolve their conflict as long as the don't share the same history. Even at that, knowledge is not limited to accumulating facts, but understanding the meaning of those facts. Our understanding of that difference changes with our years on earth. Youth is a time of accumulating facts. In our later years we tend to have "ah ha" experiences and a sense of gaining the meaning of all those facts. This google search offers on-line college courses in history and more. Personally I was amazed by how much I could learn of history by reading books about the history of education. This is a totally different point of view for learning of history than reading regular stories of his-story and thinking history is about this person and that person. Books like "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn, tell the counter history story, opposing those in power and emphasizing the role of the average person, the exploited masses. The TV series "Connections" can be found on-line and explains how inventions and discoveries influenced history's evolution. [QUOTE] doskinas There is also new projects coming out like Everipedia or Historia. Who aim to record the history of these days for the sake of the future. Do check them out. [QUOTE] That looks very interesting. Thank you.
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Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 15:13
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There is a saying, in (post) modern philosophy, "the map is not the territory" I think part of learning history is taking that to heart. I grew up near the Rocky Mountains, and to me a map was something solid, until I visited Minnesota, the land of a thousand lakes. On the map, there would be a lake with an inlet, but getting there (the water had dropped) and there were two, or so forth. Maybe there was a stream from one to the other. I enjoyed Connections, I think that is where I heard about the thermos bottle, rocket German connection. If so, that might also be where I heard about Germany's 19th-20th century food problem. I have friends who got into Zinn, never have myself. By counter history, I assume you mean revisionism.
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Posted By: caldrail
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 21:27
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It's not possible to know it all, but there are plenty who claim to know better. ------------- http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/ |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 12:59
Remember,
Somewhere in there is some common sense, I think! ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: caldrail
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 21:09
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But who's the more foolish - The Fool, or the fool who listens to him? I base my life on the teachings of Ben Kenobi. Except the idiot leaping off airborne vehicles that is. ------------- http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/ |
Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 00:34
Why did Henry the VIII keep Wil Somers around? Why in the opinion of group was the Fool so desired by royalty? This is a world wide phenomenon, the record of court fool starts in China nothing from AU Aborigines as far as I know. Jung said the Fool is one step away from the Trickster, who is one step away from a Savior. But every coin has two sides so we get some evil priests. ------------- Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien) |
Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 00:37
The Fool doesn't look where he's going so he doesn't fear the unknown according to the old French mystics. He can get killed being so unencumbered by thought but fortune favors the bold. ------------- Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien) |
Posted By: Athena
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2019 at 15:27
 We all have selective memories and forgetting has benefits. My sister remembers everything from her point of view and from her point of view she never did anything wrong, but I was a mean sister. That is not how I remember things, but I have very few memories so I can't argue with her about things I don't remember and I sure would not want all her memories! If we can't remember it all and all we know in our own point of view, what we know is very limited.
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Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2019 at 04:41
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I think that Walter Scott, Ivanhoe does a pretty good job in recognizing the fool. The fool is someone who it is beneath the dignity of the aristocrat to take affront from. Whereas, a confrontation between two aristocrats might result in a duel and someone being killed, the fool can intervene and diffuse the situation. There is also a tradition in Orthodox Christianity, of holy fools. I think that on occasion Jewish prophets might function in a similar way. There is a science fiction short story by Spider Robinson called, "Melancholy Elephants."
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Posted By: caldrail
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 22:09
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Actually, there's a lot of cultural observance of 'fools' in many human societies, mostly the less advanced ones I note. Education goes a long way to creating contempt for the foolish. Probably why I lost my tem,per at a 'fool' the other day at work for over-stacking a pallet. At least he isn't foolsih enough to attempt communication with me right now :D ------------- http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/ |
Posted By: Athena
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 01:31
Hum, I guess I am a very foolish person because I make mistakes all the time. I don't think being yelled at would get positive results. That would probable undermine my self confidence even more, increasing my stress and stress reduces my brain function even more. Stress is probably the main reason many do poorly on a test. Old age seems to make our lives even more challenging, as we can't think of the word we want to use, or other things slip our minds. I try to be philosophical about this and remind myself, it isn't being human. When I took training for being a supervisor, it was the democratic model and we were trained to coach people with words of encouragement and not to yell at them. I was impressed with the notion that our families might be more successful if the democratic model I learned for supervising others, was common to all industry. Old age makes me more sensitive to such things. With intention we might be a gentler and more successful nation. |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2019 at 12:50
Making mistakes doesn't mean your foolish, it means that you're human. And I agree with what you were taught, "You can catch more ants with honey that you can with vinegar, but sometimes a little vinegar is necessary." I don't know who wrote that but to me it's common sense. ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: Athena
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 13:15
Just for the sake of discussion, I am under the impression that the US modeled its industry after England's autocracy and that means being abused by an employer who doesn't give a sh*t about the employees and will dump on them or even fire them to cover their own asses or in reaction to a momentary feeling, and that this workplace reality got brought home and lead to the abuse of women and children and fights in the bar. Some of us are quick to anger and do not think twice about how we let others know we are displeased with them. I can say this from my experience of being controlled by my emotions and thoughtless at times. However, when I told the story of someone being angry with an employee who didn't load a pallet correctly, her response was to assume the problem was a danger to others, and in a moment of fear, the reaction was naturally unpleasant. She defended the angry response and related it to reacting to a child doing something dangerous. Reacting poorly in fear is then a sign of caring. Whatever, I sincerely hope the problem is in the past. However, the difference between the autocratic model of industry and the democratic model is important and I think worthy of discussion. I think it really matters when we consider families and the possibility of improving our relationships by having education for democracy and using the democratic model for industry. To tie into the topic of the thread, there is a lot we can not know, but hopefully we can treat each other well.
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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2019 at 19:52
I think you're correct. From what I read and see on television, US workers seem to have far less protection that, for example, Australians. We read often of people in the US being paid very low wages, and depending on tips. We read of employees dismissed out of hand, with no redress and so it goes on. It seems to me that, in some cases the fact that illegal immigration labour is so cheap, places locals in jeopardy. ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: Athena
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 01:36
Oh yeah you are right about those things. Do you mean it isn't like that in Australia? You have to know the only country most of us know about is our own, and we think we have the best country in the whole world. We are clueless that we are pretty low on measurements of health and happiness. You have redress if your superior is having a bad day and takes it out on you by firing you? Do you have health insurance?
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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 12:57
Australia is more like the UK where employees are protected by Industrial Awards and legislation, usually they can't be fired without just cause.
a. Absolutely. b. We have private health insurance companies, plus everyone is covered under our Medicare system. For example, I'm a pensioner and have whole raft of health problems. Visits to me local GP are free, as is my hospital treatment. The only downside is the waiting list, although that is prioritised. I think Australia has one of the most generous welfare systems in the western world. ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 01:25
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Of course there are laws against wrongful termination of employment. Remember the beloved Unions? In law, wrongful dismissal, also called wrongful termination or wrongful discharge, is a situation in which an employee's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_of_employment - contract of employment has been terminated by the employer, where the termination breaches one or more terms of the contract of employment, or a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory - statute provision or rule in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_law - employment law . Laws governing wrongful dismissal vary according to the terms of the employment contract, as well as under the laws and public policies of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisdiction - jurisdiction . A related concept is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_dismissal - constructive dismissal in which an employee feels no choice but to resign from employment for reasons that result from the employer's violation of the employee's legal rights. ------------- Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien) |
Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2019 at 13:55
| Of course, the harder you make it for an employer to get rid of a bad apple, the more expensive you make that mistake, and the more expensive you make it for them to hire someone new, knowing that the same thing may happen again. This penalizes most of all, people who do not have any work experience. While for some people who have decent jobs, the debate is about whether everybody should get a living wage. The problem, however, for those just starting out, is just to get a job on the bottom rung of the ladder so they can get their foot in the door. It is not a matter of living wage, but any wage (with the understanding that they are not going to be stuck there). It is much easier to get a job, if you have a job, or have had a job. |
Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2019 at 14:26
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People do fight for a job worth keeping if they are in it for the long game. If you get fired from an entry level position, step one, show us what you got ..and already it's a bad fit find_ out_ sooner rather than later. It's easier to find another job in this market then battle with your boss. And in a bad market you won't gamble with your paycheck. ------------- Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien) |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2019 at 13:04
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Are we going just a little off topic here? Back to topic, if I'm simply asked what I know, my obvious answer is either ,"About what?" or "I don't know." Bottom line, no one can know everything about everything, we're not wired that way. ------------- From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph) |
Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2019 at 13:16
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There was an indy rock song that had the following lyrics; "the more that you know, the less that you know, you know." How about that dynamic??
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Posted By: caldrail
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2019 at 21:48
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I remember an acerbic comment from my flying instructor when I casually said "Well you know we learn from our mistakes". His answer was "Mistakes in aeroplanes can be fatal. Learn from those who made them previously and are still around." ------------- http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/ |
Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2019 at 00:12
You always wonder about going off topic, when You go off topic. I think your are safe. ------------- Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien) |
Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2019 at 08:42
| I sometimes wonder if there is anything that is completely "off-topic." I mean if everything is related to everything, then nothing is absolutely off topic. It is like the game 5 degrees of Kevin Bacon. You relate one actor (A) to another (B), to another (C), to another (D), to another (E) and you connect just about anyone in Hollywood to anyone else. Going back to the silent era is a challenge and I imagine that there are other problems that can pop up. But, I believe my brother has a friend who used study sea slugs, which turn out to have characteristic with medical implications. But, of course, that doesn't mean that if you come with something totally in left field that you will be able to bring it back into connection with highly relevant things in our daily lives. More likely, you will get totally distracted and never get back to the path. |