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Gunboat Diplomacy

Printed From: WorldHistoria Forum
Category: GENERAL HISTORY
Forum Name: General Military History
Forum Description: General disccusion of Military History that is not specifically covered at the subforums
URL: http://www.worldhistoria.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=128261
Printed Date: 17 Nov 2018 at 15:52
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Gunboat Diplomacy
Posted By: Captain Vancouver
Subject: Gunboat Diplomacy
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2013 at 01:50
The aircraft carrier, dominent in WW2, and proving to be a wonderful tool for meddling in the third world for decades after, may now be fading into history, with consequences geopolitical stategy today. The increasing speed and precision of missile systems now puts the carrier at dire risk, in the same sense that aircraft put battleships at unacceptable risk after about 1940 or so.
 
The DF-21D missile, now being deployed by China, has the capability to destroy carriers up to 1500k away, with defense against these very problematic. Even if these are only moderately effective, the massive investment in large modern warships would likely mean that they could not be risked in an environment where they may come within range.
 
It's curious to think what changes in policy, and relationships between formerly third world countries such as China, but also others, with the west might become in future years, given this scenerio. How likely would the US be to send carrier task forces to the Persian Gulf, or to Taiwan, if there was a good possibility of loosing them? How important would sea power be, overall, in such and environment?
 
http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2011/09/29/chinas-new-anti-ship-missile-a-pacific-nightmare-for-the-us/" rel="nofollow - http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2011/09/29/chinas-new-anti-ship-missile-a-pacific-nightmare-for-the-us/
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-18/china-s-anti-carrier-missile-now-opposite-taiwan-flynn-says.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-18/china-s-anti-carrier-missile-now-opposite-taiwan-flynn-says.html



Replies:
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2014 at 02:24
Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

The aircraft carrier, dominent in WW2, and proving to be a wonderful tool for meddling in the third world for decades after, may now be fading into history, with consequences geopolitical stategy today. The increasing speed and precision of missile systems now puts the carrier at dire risk, in the same sense that aircraft put battleships at unacceptable risk after about 1940 or so.
 
The DF-21D missile, now being deployed by China, has the capability to destroy carriers up to 1500k away, with defense against these very problematic. Even if these are only moderately effective, the massive investment in large modern warships would likely mean that they could not be risked in an environment where they may come within range.
 
It's curious to think what changes in policy, and relationships between formerly third world countries such as China, but also others, with the west might become in future years, given this scenerio. How likely would the US be to send carrier task forces to the Persian Gulf, or to Taiwan, if there was a good possibility of loosing them? How important would sea power be, overall, in such and environment?
 
http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2011/09/29/chinas-new-anti-ship-missile-a-pacific-nightmare-for-the-us/" rel="nofollow - http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2011/09/29/chinas-new-anti-ship-missile-a-pacific-nightmare-for-the-us/
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-18/china-s-anti-carrier-missile-now-opposite-taiwan-flynn-says.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-18/china-s-anti-carrier-missile-now-opposite-taiwan-flynn-says.html
 
Given the invention and use of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs), and the fact that unmanned vessels are now being tested, do you see a day when there'll be fully automated, small carriers, equipped with drones?

-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: pinguin
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2014 at 03:57
Excelent news. I would tell our Argentinean neighbors to buy some hundreds of DF-21D, just in case the British return one day.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2014 at 07:54
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Excelent news. I would tell our Argentinean neighbors to buy some hundreds of DF-21D, just in case the British return one day.
 
Anti American, anti British.
 
Who else is not on your Christmas list?


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 15:32
Indeed - hyper sonic missiles developed by Russia also render the Missile Shield in Western Europe a huge waste of time and money.  But that was never the point, the point was lining the pockets of Bush admin's buddies.

The Moskit active radar cruise missile has long rendered ACs redundant against Russia and any other country which deploys them, but this 1500km range is quite a deterrent to their "strategic" use.

Quote Anti American, anti British.
 
Who else is not on your Christmas list?


Probably you.  But he has a good point.



-------------
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.


Posted By: Panther
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 21:37
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Indeed - hyper sonic missiles developed by Russia also render the Missile Shield in Western Europe a huge waste of time and money.  But that was never the point, the point was lining the pockets of Bush admin's buddies.



An allegation that can be equally met with another by merely stating that Putin and cronies doing the same, and much more successfully. However, the bigger picture is Bush and co. are gone. Dubya will never occupy the white house again. Putin otoh... will hold on to the seat of power until he either dies or makes himself dictator for life of Russia; Frightfully, many Russians would be okay with that, regardless of all the past painful experiences Russia has had with emperors and dictators. Their past historical lessons seem to be in the process of being unlearned.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2014 at 03:59
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Indeed - hyper sonic missiles developed by Russia also render the Missile Shield in Western Europe a huge waste of time and money.  But that was never the point, the point was lining the pockets of Bush admin's buddies.



An allegation that can be equally met with another by merely stating that Putin and cronies doing the same, and much more successfully. However, the bigger picture is Bush and co. are gone. Dubya will never occupy the white house again. Putin otoh... will hold on to the seat of power until he either dies or makes himself dictator for life of Russia; Frightfully, many Russians would be okay with that, regardless of all the past painful experiences Russia has had with emperors and dictators. Their past historical lessons seem to be in the process of being unlearned.
 
 
So, does the world need another hawk like Ronny "Rockets" Reagan to take Putin on head to head.
 
It appears unless someone stands up to him, like Reagan would, he's likely to take all of Ukraine next, and then start reclaiming the rest of the ex-Russian territory, e.g. Georgia, Chechnya, etc..
 
A stand has to be made somewhere, imho, and it might just as well be in the Ukraine.


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.



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