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Marshall Aid

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 02:44
Originally posted by Northman Northman wrote:

Originally posted by CV CV wrote:

I am hoping that at some point, Mr B, you may reveal yourself to be not what you claim, but perhaps a high school student writing an essay on the British Empire who has found a unique and entertaining way to gather facts. That would be somewhat amusing. The alternatives are more dismaying.
LOL
That would explain a whole lot of things not adding up - and driks are on the house if it's true.
If it IS true Buckskins, you will even get a "well done" from me.
 
Cheers
  

Alas sir, the gentlemans fantasy has no resemblence to reality. Look at all the drink money I have saved you.Smile I simply want our British members to acknowledged their brutal history. It's quite simple. Some of these guys have History as their chosen discipline. They know better, or are in denial. What they did is not taught in their schools, as a result many Brits really are innocently ignorant of their country's dark history.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 02:50
Originally posted by fusong fusong wrote:

Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Lets blame the Americans.


wait being a texan you should be an evil red neck
right? LOL

Hi my friend. Sometimes a little sarcasm does not come over well in print. I guess you are communicating in a second language. When I said "Lets blame the Americans" that in essence was what he was doing.

 Cheers, Matt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 02:57
Graham, does "From the cradle to the grave" ring a bell. With your country presenting the begging bowl again, did the proposed welfare state have any effect on the British economy? You had troops deployed around the world playing the big shot with American tax payers money. The British getting reparations from West Germany was a funnel for even more money from from the Marshall Plan. And yet with a few years the UK was sniffing German road dirt, and has been since.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 03:27
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Originally posted by Northman Northman wrote:

Originally posted by CV CV wrote:

I am hoping that at some point, Mr B, you may reveal yourself to be not what you claim, but perhaps a high school student writing an essay on the British Empire who has found a unique and entertaining way to gather facts. That would be somewhat amusing. The alternatives are more dismaying.
LOL
That would explain a whole lot of things not adding up - and driks are on the house if it's true.
If it IS true Buckskins, you will even get a "well done" from me.
 
Cheers
  

Alas sir, the gentlemans fantasy has no resemblence to reality. Look at all the drink money I have saved you.Smile I simply want our British members to acknowledged their brutal history. It's quite simple. Some of these guys have History as their chosen discipline. They know better, or are in denial. What they did is not taught in their schools, as a result many Brits really are innocently ignorant of their country's dark history.

Baloney, no one has to go around "acknowledging" every single brutal deed committed by the country he happens to live in. How about writing a novel "acknowledging" all brutal deeds your country has done and is still doing before throwing grenades in the glass house? You are not talking about history, you are playing some childish blame game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 04:14
Styrbiorn,  I thank you for your opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 06:25
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Graham, does "From the cradle to the grave" ring a bell.
Yep. A happy one.
At wha ages do you think people should not be helped when necessary?
Quote
With your country presenting the begging bowl again, did the proposed welfare state have any effect on the British economy?
Yes. Mostly good. Very low unemployment for a start. Low interest rates. Political stability. Long list. The welfare state has similarly had beneficial effects in Japan, Germany, France, Italy.... About the only country that has missed out is the US.
 
Incidentally the US has been passing the begging bowl around for thirty years. Until fairly recently the UK was the US' biggest creditor, with Japan second, though China has now moved ahead.
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You had troops deployed around the world playing the big shot with American tax payers money.
As you so often put it, we were just fighting your wars for you.
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The British getting reparations from West Germany was a funnel for even more money from from the Marshall Plan. And yet with a few years the UK was sniffing German road dirt, and has been since.
I dont know what you're on about. Britain got no reparations for WW1 (neither did the US). Only Russia, the Netherlands and Israel as wikipedia recalls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_reparations_for_World_War_II
Maybe you've been listening to Korean high school children again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 07:38
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Quote
in WW2 for two years, while America considered how much money was to be made on the event, and how long it could stay out while Britain did the fighting.

Please excuse us for not immediately crossing the Atlantic to fight your war for you.
 
The US was so concerned (wrongly as it turns out) about the prospect of a monolithic, ill-intentioned power gaining too much control of the eastern hemisphere, that it fought a bloody war in Korea, and then initiated a second one in Vietnam to try and stop it. These were countries far away, and probably unheard of by many Americans, yet they were deemed important enough to the US's long term security that all out war was considered necessary.
 
If so concerned about communism taking over the fringe, how much more of a threat would fascism be if in control of what was then the vast majority of the world, in terms of industry, infrastructure, and output? At that time (1940s), Europe, the Soviet Union, and East Asia were about it, outside of North America, in regard to those measures. Fascism was in fact a real threat, not a misinterpreted one like "monolithic communism", and if Germany and Japan had been more succesful, they would have presented much more of a monolith than communism ever did, isolating a North America that would now look much smaller in comparison.
 
Morality aside, the US would have been in an ever tighter position in the event of an Axis victory. It would be hemmed in by world powers controlled much of the earth's surface. Either a much greater war would have come in the future, or the US would have had to accept unsavory terms in order to survive, and in that event probably also be impelled to maintain huge armed forces, perhaps cripplingly large.
 
Of course people like FDR, and others with a rudimentary knowledge of world affairs, knew this, and knew the US was better of in than out- and the sooner the better. Attempting the role of used car salesman at this time was not a high point in US history. But as northman has said, this is water under the bridge. But history needs to be honestly faced, if we are to learn anything from it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Act of Oblivion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 08:32
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

 I simply want our British members to acknowledged their brutal history. It's quite simple. Some of these guys have History as their chosen discipline. They know better, or are in denial. What they did is not taught in their schools, as a result many Brits really are innocently ignorant of their country's dark history.
 
....Buckskins, apologies for the long post, but here goes...
 
....i have read most of your threads on British history...it has been an interesting and entertaining experience.Smile....to set my stall out-my 'official' documents list me as 'British' although the term is meaningless to me on a personal level, and i have 'chosen' history as my discipline...but for the life of me i do not understand your claim that 'we' are in denial regarding the history of the British Empire, its pros and cons..and that somehow 'we' need to be 'taught' our past..??...of course it is easy to be 'innocently ignorant,' it would  be an impossible task for absolutely everyone to know absolutely everything about Britain's colonial past, you could say that about any historical topic, but that does not always mean that those who don't are in denial...on a basic level, you simply have to look at the vast number of undergraduate and post-graduate courses available in the UK which offer research and study of the Empire...it is also taught in secondary schooling....
 
...much like American Cold War foreign policy, British Imperial policy is taught often as a context in the understanding of 20th century international relations and how both the US and British have a lot to answer for regarding the current state of global affairs in the 21st century, both Washington and London employed economic leverage and brute force in their respective policies...
 
..in addition, pretty much the majority of historians and history based advisory organisations advocate a greater need to incorporate the subject into the curriculum as history has been undermined in recent years (more to do with governmental political trends than a wish to 'deny'...)
 
..'ah ah', i hear you say, 'but the truth is not being told'...once again, this is simply not the case...for a simple example, next week there is the fourth part of a series that is being shown on BBC television entitled 'Empire' which looks at some of the topics you have raised, the forthcoming episode is about the exploitation of the lands controlled under British Imperialism...my point here is that this is popular history, made for the masses, to be consumed by the masses, but popular history does not exist in a vacuum...many years of studious academic research precedes any presentation of popular history, in many ways, it is the dumbed down version that gets on TV(as much as i hate to say that) but the programme, dumb-downed as it is, and styled for mass consumation still highlights the distasteful parts of the British Empire...
 
....spend time in school, university, and public libraries, and you will find literature that deals extensively with Britain's colonial past, the good and the bad, as it were....you will not find many students of early British modern history that do not know about all the episodes you have chosen to chronicle in your 'Britain in' threads...unless they are studying the topic intensively, some may not always be aware of the details, but they pretty much know the issues in play...
 
...a fair amount of what you have written has some basis in 'a' truth, but it is not the whole truth...the topic is vast, complicated, detailed and the historical record is far from complete....the arguments surrounding the positive and negative aspects of British Imperial policy have been examined and debated extensively....no personal disrespect Buckskins, but you would have to immerse yourself in the subject matter, totally, before you could even begin to think about making the kind of statements you chosen....you have opted to take a very narrow stance on British history and it is a rickety position... you claim you have an amateur interest in history and that will not suffice im afraid...that is not a criticism, believe me, i have been working to be 'amateur' for about 15 years, it is an on-going pursuit!!....but just about everything you have written can be countered with another argument and a supply of source materials to back up the counter-argument, but it would take an eternity to delve into every single issue from every single angle.......however, chucking out statements and sources of the kind you employ will not do, it is obvious you have a talent for writing, a wit that is welcome (at least by me) and plenty to say...i find it hard to believe your mission is as stated, i suspect also a wilful attempt at self entertainment...Eyebrow
 
...of course there will always be 'our rednecks' who believe that the Empire was the height of achievement, the UK does not have a monopoly on ignorance, but i would like to assure you that  such folks are in the minority.... 
 
...thank you if you have got even this far...Hard Work..kind regards and stick around....AoO


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 09:14
Quote  
Of course people like FDR, and others with a rudimentary knowledge of world affairs, knew this, and knew the US was better of in than out- and the sooner the better. Attempting the role of used car salesman at this time was not a high point in US history. But as northman has said, this is water under the bridge. But history needs to be honestly faced, if we are to learn anything from it.

 
 "But history needs to be honestly faced, if we are to learn anything from it."

I can't believe the nerve of you people. The UK was a scourge on humanity for centuries, how about you start with that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 09:29

Germany is still paying off £50million of the 'reparations' demanded from it after the end of First World War.

The German Finance Agency, its authority on debt management, said tens of millions of euros are still being transferred to private individuals holding debenture bonds as agreed under the Treaty of Versailles signed on June 28, 1919


The principal representative of the British Treasury at the Paris Peace Conference, John Maynard Keynes, resigned in June 1919 in protest at the scale of the demands, warning correctly that it was stoking the fires for another war in the future.

And that is the British mentality. Take, Take, then take some more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 09:45

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Yep. A happy one.

And the American taxpayer paying for it.

Quote
Yes. Mostly good. Very low unemployment for a start. Low interest rates. Political stability. Long list. The welfare state has similarly had beneficial effects in Japan, Germany, France, Italy.... About the only country that has missed out is the US.
Well Communists in Labor clothing we ain't. If y'aal were doing so great, why was the begging bowl out for a loan again? And this on top of the Marshall Plan.
 
Quote
Incidentally the US has been passing the begging bowl around for thirty years. Until fairly recently the UK was the US' biggest creditor, with Japan second, though China has now moved ahead.
Selling bonds is hardly passing the begging bowl. What county was it that had to go to the IMF with...you got it...begging bowl in hand?
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As you so often put it, we were just fighting your wars for you.
That may be your most ludicrous line yet.
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I dont know what you're on about. Britain got no reparations for WW1  
Maybe you've been listening to Korean high school children again?

Evidently that kid knows more than you about your own country.

The principal representative of the British Treasury at the Paris Peace Conference, John Maynard Keynes, resigned in June 1919 in protest at the scale of the demands, warning correctly that it was stoking the fires for another war in the future.


 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 10:11
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

And that is the British mentality. Take, Take, then take some more.
Stupid me - I got it all wrong then....
I thought that was the mentality of US republicans - did the british take that too Buckskins?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 10:16
Act of Oblivion. I read your post twice. It's a gem. My problem is that I can't find much to argue about with it. I don't at all claim to be any kind of expert on the topic I am presenting, (I elected for money paying degrees)LOL but as you can see the topics are being denied left and right by a few members. My points are very basic, black and white. This leaves less room for smoke and spin. I realize this is not what a person like yourself is used too. Heck, I even had to diddle my high school English teacher to graduate at that level. And then she gave me a B Angry The thing that got me going with this is due to the arrogant attacks on my country in this forum, it's worse in others. It's the same people over and over again. Sure we made mistakes, but we admit it. With the UK it appears that the unsavory aspect of the empire is swept under the rug. Kinda like being caught peeking up an old ladies skirt. Lets not talk about it and it will go away.

 I know of course that the UK has some really good schools, but like here they are not for everyone. The impression I get from Brits is that when they talk about the empire, they get all warm and cuddly with a gleam of pride in their eyes. It was nothing but a looting machine for the UK.  The crimes committed on those people are some of the worst in human history. I'm not in this for amusement, really not. History has always held my attention from an early age.

Cheers, Matt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 10:23
Originally posted by Northman Northman wrote:

Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

And that is the British mentality. Take, Take, then take some more.
Stupid me - I got it all wrong then....
I thought that was the mentality of US republicans - did the british take that too Buckskins?
Smile

With the herd that's running for the nomination, could be they did, but they obviously lost that superb mentality to the Irish. In Angela's Ashes I loved the one about, there were no bed bugs in Ireland until the English showed up. Cracks me up every time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 10:40
We got very little aid and we had a border with Commies! Shame on you USA! Tongue

Edited by Paradigm of Humanity - 19 Mar 2012 at 10:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 10:53
Originally posted by Paradigm of Humanity Paradigm of Humanity wrote:

We got very little aid and we had a border with Commies! Shame on you USA! Tongue

You received a lot of aid during the cold war. Turkey was a solid ally, unlike the Greeks. Our relations with Turkey are not what they used to be. I hope they improve.
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Graphic didn't say so, I didn't knew it was so small scale. I was just kidding but thing got real when I saw the graphic Stern Smile Even shifty Greeks had more aid, much much more... Thumbs Down


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 12:31
I see. That was the way Britian became a colony of the U.S.A.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 13:11
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Quote  
Of course people like FDR, and others with a rudimentary knowledge of world affairs, knew this, and knew the US was better of in than out- and the sooner the better. Attempting the role of used car salesman at this time was not a high point in US history. But as northman has said, this is water under the bridge. But history needs to be honestly faced, if we are to learn anything from it.

 
 "But history needs to be honestly faced, if we are to learn anything from it."

I can't believe the nerve of you people. The UK was a scourge on humanity for centuries, how about you start with that.


 
Just for the record Mr B, I know that Americans tend to be geographically challenged, but Vancouver Island in in Canada (as is my nationality), not too far from you, on a global scale.
 
My experience with this forum is that some of the most heated debates flow around events that involve the US in history. I think the reason for this is that in so many other countries, some of whom are represented here, there is a more or less open acceptance of the past, the good, bad, or indifferent. This is good, but tends to limit debate, as there is less disagreement. The "nail that sticks up", as the Japanese put it, is often America, a country that has seen good luck in recent decades, and is now, rather unfortunately, equating this with an almost magical idea of exceptionality. Even President Obama almost fell into a PR trap recently when he almost (don't touch that third rail !) said that perhaps Americans weren't really any more exceptional than anyone else. He had to backtrack to maintain his job.
 
Indeed, we have had members here quit in disgust because US history was being opened to the uncontrolled debate that is typical of the internet, and forums like this one. The point here is that we have seen negative commontary on aspect of other countries, and they have been taken on, in a spirit of academic exploration. I'm not aware of anyone that has quit or called fowl because of remarks about say, Denmark, or Saudi Arabia.
 
Societies, I believe, like individuals, have a level of psychological health. Some (Holland, New Zealand?) would seem to pass any sort of assessment. Others ( Somalia, Syria) would, if individuals, be assigned to some sort of facility for treatment. Where does the US fit in?
 
To be so introspective as to deny, or not want to investigate, negative aspects of one's community, or country, is not, IMO, very healthy. Take a look at the US Republican primary campaign going on right now for example. It is an exercise in dysfunction and cynicism if there ever was one. The fact that so many in the US media, and in the general public, take these kind of things seriously is an indication of the dysfunction in US society today.
 
You, Mr B, make adolescent style claims of allegiance to the US, but you either deny, or have little knowledge of its past and present, if you pronouncements are to be believed. This sort of uber nationalism is in itself suspect, as it indicates a simplistic view of world events, and also the spectrum of human behavior.
 
History, in this forum, is being honestly faced, with commentary from a number of differing views. Are you facing it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 21:16
Nicely put, Captain.
 
@Buckskins,
The post quoted below is irrelevant and pointless. You claimed that Britain received reparations from Germany for world war two. This all refers to reparationos from world war one.
 
And itisn't even paying reparations for ww1 any more. What it is paying off are the debts it incurred - the debenture bonds mentioned - to private individuals, in the '20s, the valueof which has of course pretty well vanished through continued inflation.
 
But it is not still paying reparations.
 
Life would be so much simpler for you and you would end up with far less egg on your face if you (a) admitted when you were wrong instead of changing the subject, and (b) read what you post in the first place.
 
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Germany is still paying off £50million of the 'reparations' demanded from it after the end of First World War.

The German Finance Agency, its authority on debt management, said tens of millions of euros are still being transferred to private individuals holding debenture bonds as agreed under the Treaty of Versailles signed on June 28, 1919


The principal representative of the British Treasury at the Paris Peace Conference, John Maynard Keynes, resigned in June 1919 in protest at the scale of the demands, warning correctly that it was stoking the fires for another war in the future.

And that is the British mentality. Take, Take, then take some more.


Edited by gcle2003 - 19 Mar 2012 at 22:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 22:10
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:


Quote
Yep. A happy one.

And the American taxpayer paying for it.
Nope. The ERP was used to helppay for imports and to improve the results of the negative trade balance. The health service wasn't an importing industry (at least import costs were minimal) and if anything contributed to the balance of trade because the pharmaceutical industry was flourishing.
 
Put another way the dollar cost of the NHS was about nil.
 
One of these days after you get around to some basic historical study, maybe you should try some elementary economics.
Quote

Quote
Yes. Mostly good. Very low unemployment for a start. Low interest rates. Political stability. Long list. The welfare state has similarly had beneficial effects in Japan, Germany, France, Italy.... About the only country that has missed out is the US.
Well Communists in Labor clothing we ain't. If y'aal were doing so great, why was the begging bowl out for a loan again? And this on top of the Marshall Plan.
Basically because Reagan made the discovery that you could lower taxes and increase military expenditures at the same time by borowing the neessary money from overseas. And, as long as the dollar remained the dominant reserve currency you didn't even have to pay back the loan.
 
The Marshall Plan had nothing to do with the US passing around the begging bowl. In fact it represented quite a small amount compared to the scale of the borrowing.  
Quote
 
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Incidentally the US has been passing the begging bowl around for thirty years. Until fairly recently the UK was the US' biggest creditor, with Japan second, though China has now moved ahead.
Selling bonds is hardly passing the begging bowl. What county was it that had to go to the IMF with...you got it...begging bowl in hand?
Selling bonds in order to refinance the bonds you alread have is passing the begging bowl around.
Borrowing money is brrowing money no matter who you borrow from. What matters is paying it back. 57 countries currently owe money to the IMF. The UK isn't one of them. The US still owes foreigners more than any other country in history has ever done.
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I dont know what you're on about. Britain got no reparations for WW1  
Maybe you've been listening to Korean high school children again?

Evidently that kid knows more than you about your own country.
 
The principal representative of the British Treasury at the Paris Peace Conference, John Maynard Keynes, resigned in June 1919 in protest at the scale of the demands, warning correctly that it was stoking the fires for another war in the future.
Tell me what Britain actually received in reparations? As I already pointed out that article when you read it isn't talking about reparations at all (presumably why a careful sub-editor pur the word in quotes in the headline). It's talking about bonds issued by the Weimar republic to private investors. Moreover the article doesn't even say it is Britain receiving the repayment.
 
In any case, we were talking about reparations for ww2 not after ww1. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 22:17
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I see. That was the way Britian became a colony of the U.S.A.
 
Just because Buckskins is daft doesn't mean you have to be so too. Most of the time you make reasonable contributions.
 
I accept that Britain is currently in danger of making the same serious mistakes the US has made. I'll even listen if you suggest leading UK politicians have made a good deal for themselves personally from supporting US policies. The current attempts by the government to weaken the NHS are a good example. But that doesn't make it a colony.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 22:23
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Act of Oblivion. I read your post twice. It's a gem. My problem is that I can't find much to argue about with it. I don't at all claim to be any kind of expert on the topic I am presenting, (I elected for money paying degrees)LOL but as you can see the topics are being denied left and right by a few members. My points are very basic, black and white. This leaves less room for smoke and spin.
Your posts are nothing but smoke and spin.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 01:00
Originally posted by Paradigm of Humanity Paradigm of Humanity wrote:

Graphic didn't say so, I didn't knew it was so small scale. I was just kidding but thing got real when I saw the graphic Stern Smile Even shifty Greeks had more aid, much much more... Thumbs Down



They deserved more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 01:08
Vancouver, you are the worst offender. Period. What's more I find you so much of a windbag that your posts border on a cure for insomnia. No doubt your sidekick will take care of this post for you also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 01:13
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Nicely put, Captain.
 
@Buckskins,
The post quoted below is irrelevant and pointless. You claimed that Britain received reparations from Germany for world war two. This all refers to reparationos from world war one.
 
And itisn't even paying reparations for ww1 any more. What it is paying off are the debts it incurred - the debenture bonds mentioned - to private individuals, in the '20s, the valueof which has of course pretty well vanished through continued inflation.
 
But it is not still paying reparations.
 
Life would be so much simpler for you and you would end up with far less egg on your face if you (a) admitted when you were wrong instead of changing the subject, and (b) read what you post in the first place.
 
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Germany is still paying off £50million of the 'reparations' demanded from it after the end of First World War.

The German Finance Agency, its authority on debt management, said tens of millions of euros are still being transferred to private individuals holding debenture bonds as agreed under the Treaty of Versailles signed on June 28, 1919


The principal representative of the British Treasury at the Paris Peace Conference, John Maynard Keynes, resigned in June 1919 in protest at the scale of the demands, warning correctly that it was stoking the fires for another war in the future.

And that is the British mentality. Take, Take, then take some more.

"I dont know what you're on about. Britain got no reparations for WW1 (neither did the US). Only Russia,"

 You were saying Graham?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 01:15
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Act of Oblivion. I read your post twice. It's a gem. My problem is that I can't find much to argue about with it. I don't at all claim to be any kind of expert on the topic I am presenting, (I elected for money paying degrees)LOL but as you can see the topics are being denied left and right by a few members. My points are very basic, black and white. This leaves less room for smoke and spin.
Your posts are nothing but smoke and spin.
 

That's right Graham. Never mind the facts. Keep yourself in denial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 01:26
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I see. That was the way Britian became a colony of the U.S.A.
 
Just because Buckskins is daft doesn't mean you have to be so too. Most of the time you make reasonable contributions.
 
I accept that Britain is currently in danger of making the same serious mistakes the US has made. I'll even listen if you suggest leading UK politicians have made a good deal for themselves personally from supporting US policies. The current attempts by the government to weaken the NHS are a good example. But that doesn't make it a colony.

 I think you know you are full of it. All your little snide remarks in your posts to me are a dead giveaway. When Brits are cornered it starts with name calling, then correcting spelling errors, and of course that ole Brit standby..a personal attack. I do admit you have more tricks up your sleeve than the average Brit denier. You can and do delete my posts, and your red herrings by way of distractions are first class. Why don't you just come clean Graham. Ventilate it out of your system. You will feel so much better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 04:32
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

They deserved more.

Exactly, this is the reasoning of US - Turkey relationships (and many others). Profit... When it is over, frienship will go with it.

Another point is these countries been at war for many years and all of them invaded (except Britain). Only exceptions was Turkey, Ireland, Sweden, Portugal and Switzerland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 06:33
Originally posted by Paradigm of Humanity Paradigm of Humanity wrote:

Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

They deserved more.

Exactly, this is the reasoning of US - Turkey relationships (and many others). Profit... When it is over, frienship will go with it.

Another point is these countries been at war for many years and all of them invaded (except Britain). Only exceptions was Turkey, Ireland, Sweden, Portugal and Switzerland.

And yet Britain received the most money of any under the Marshall Plan. Then a loan from the US with 2% interest.

I think the relationship between Turkey and the US started to cool off when we attacked Iraq, and we were refused entry into Northern Iraq via Turkey. I'm not sure if that was due to the Kurdish issue, or pressure of an Islamic nature. In any event it's not forgotten. How do you feel about a Kurdish homeland?
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