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Hesychasm, Orthodox tradition

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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2020 at 12:09
Catholics are not universal, a friend who is Orthodox presented it as first there was the Orthodox, then there came the Catholics who added extraneous stuff to it all, then the Protestant came, and cut, but cut too much.  Catholics want to patch up things with the Orthodox, although they want to be first among "equals."  Catholics have some weird theological qwerks, like the filioque.  I am not sure that the Orthodox should give up their autonomy just to make the Catholics happy.  I think that Catholics tend to look at Protestants as heretical or worse.  I tend to think that they are not happy unless they are in control.  

I am not sure about the myths that surround Simon Peter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2020 at 08:38
That's one way of looking at it. The best and worst thing about Catholics IMO is the idea that living in the past is supremely pious. The Orthodox have extraordinary ecstatic tradition and so do the Catholics.  

Both churches hang on to outdated ideas that exclude them from most non religious company, can't help seeing how these taboos ripened the atmosphere of secrecy among the wolves and the lambs. 


Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 12:54
I am not sure what you mean by "outdated ideas."  Do you mean things that regressives don't like and endlessly harp on.  When they do that, they do not tend to be dealing with religion in "good faith", as friends or supporters, but as vandals wanting to tear it down.  If these critics happen upon some good advice it is purely coincidental, and unintentional.

I am not sure why they should "share" with the outside world.  They have a very rich way of living, why should they want to dilute that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2020 at 13:44
Outdated ideas like not letting divorced people get communion, charity doesn't begin at home it begins with tithes, Mary Magdalene is still portrayed as the worst kind of woman, no Gnostic texts are acknowledged of course, the lying and protecting of child molesters and finding new situations for these weirdos to predate, the Pope slobbering on kids this week after all were warned about the virus!

The Catholics have the problem. If they don't reach out they will become extinct. The general public is currently hateful towards religion, Christianity in particular. It draws public scorn even the damn local tv news lady sneers the word Christian contemptuously. Not to mention democrat progressive posers too willing to chuck red meat bordering on inciting violence. See Chuck Schumer to Chief Justice Roberts. 
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2020 at 11:57
Orthodox allow divorced to have communion, they're limited in advancement to deacon.  Mary Magdalene was "rehabilitated" (my word), in the Catholic Church, probably in the sixties.  Orthodox never characterized her that way.  Protestantism is not centralized, so opinions there are mixed.  There is a reason why Gnosticism lost out, it tends to reject material nature, which means a negative emphasis on 'this' world, which is the one we live in.  The problems of the oppression of the Roman Empire are of this world.  Orthodoxy addressed them, whereas Gnosticism didn't.  All these new agers, in love with Gnosticism, don't realize that Gnosticism rejects the environment.

I would humbly suggest that if you are Catholic, then make your stand within the Catholic Church, and if you are not Catholic, don't worry about it.  Christians have been persecuted before, they are tougher than you think.  But, whatever you do, don't believe the hype.  The local tv newswoman is ignorant, and is displaying her ignorance.  As Bob Dylan said, "there is one thing you can't hide, if you are crippled inside."

Hesychia is a tradition that formalizes in Orthodoxy in the later Roman Empire.  I imagine that it came after the time of persecution and martyrdom.  But, the Philokalia is also a work of the Turcokratia, a time of more mild persecution, but persecution nevertheless of Christians during the Ottoman Empire, but also a time of "benign" neglect where Christian communities were _in general_ left alone in the Empire.  I wonder if the tradition of stillness and silence of Hesychia could be an answer to our modern hectic age.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2020 at 09:19
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Orthodox allow divorced to have communion, they're limited in advancement to deacon.  Mary Magdalene was "rehabilitated" (my word), in the Catholic Church, probably in the sixties. 
Maybe officially re branded but not in my parish, considering the Epimethean tendencies of Catholics I'd say it was lip service. Even Elizabeth mother of John the baptist was solidly diminutive to Mary in the catechism lessons.

Quote Orthodox never characterized her that way.
The Orthodox are not at odds with Gnosticism.

Quote   Protestantism is not centralized, so opinions there are mixed.  There is a reason why Gnosticism lost out, it tends to reject material nature, which means a negative emphasis on 'this' world, which is the one we live in.
Hmm, the threat may be the empowerment of the human being, all Sons of Man with a direct connection to the Source of life.


Quote   The problems of the oppression of the Roman Empire are of this world.  Orthodoxy addressed them, whereas Gnosticism didn't.  All these new agers, in love with Gnosticism, don't realize that Gnosticism rejects the environment.
Gnosticism is the essence of escape from the material world. I don't follow your logic there.

Quote I would humbly suggest that if you are Catholic, then make your stand within the Catholic Church, and if you are not Catholic, don't worry about it.
I'm not Catholic, there is no peace to make, I don't need it at all. Where ever three or more gather in my name, man, period.

Quote   Christians have been persecuted before, they are tougher than you think.  But, whatever you do, don't believe the hype.  The local tv newswoman is ignorant, and is displaying her ignorance.  As Bob Dylan said, "there is one thing you can't hide, if you are crippled inside."
Yes


Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2020 at 08:14
Coptics are basically Orthodox and to them the Nag Hammadi texts are an embarrassment.  I imagine that all these texts discovered in the Egyptian desert are a "plus/minus" situation for the Coptics.  Plus in that they lead to more attention and importance in the Coptic language and the Coptic Church, minus in that Western scholars are giving it the wrong kind of attention, in their opinion.

The term "Gnosticism" is a modern 'map' of the ancient situation.  It wasn't a term that an ancient would have called himself.  But then again, neither was "Presocratic philosopher," "Neoplatonist," and maybe not "Neopythagorean."  For that matter, there is the Orthodox Church and the orthodox church.  Protestants and Catholics would consider themselves lower case orthodox, whereas the Orthodox Church would probably consider the Catholics and the Protestants heretical, specifically over the "filioque".  Karen King fudges a little when she talks about Catholics and the orthodox persecuting the poor Gnostics, who were not called Gnostics, and the poor heretics, that were not heretics because all we had were happy Christians until the Nicaean Creed and the canonization.
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