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Famous Soviet Muslim Veteran of WWII passes away

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 10:24
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Just because I couldn't resist while reading this thread, I misued my moderator's power and traced Recks IP for interests sake. Reck's IP traces to an ISP located in Ulaanbator - Mongolia. So perhaps you two should ease up on him a bit?
 
And what is your ancestory Drgonzaga? I've been meaning to ask you, you allude to enough thinks that its hard to quite pin down.
 
Why, Omar, you've been pinging!Wink So the curiosity over Reck's changing identities and locations got to you too. However, what discomfitted me over his posts were the repeated insertion of figures that could only antagonize--not that his sudden assertions over "lying" do little other than bode ill for the future.
 
Now as to my own ancestry, I do not hold much with the derring-doos of my forefathers and their own versions of gilding the lilly other than understand that the prime directive was always "to wife it wealthily". Interestingly, my father--who as a rebellious youth adopted markedly socialist politics--always emphasized the descent from Diogo Ribeiro (Diego Rivero) the renown XVIth century cartographer conveniently forgetting all of the other surnames that intruded upon the pedigree including the little nicety on names insisted upon by my grandfather at my birth: Diego David Gonzalo Gonzaga de Rivero y Borbon. On my mother's side between the pure Visigothic jumble of Menendez, Alvarez, Granda and Mendoza one must add Medina, Moya, Leal, Ravelo and Enriquez.
 
Guess what, I consider myself a mongrel! I do know that in terms of the Americas, my direct direct and lateral paternal ancestors were in Peru in the 16th century, then at Havana in 1696 from which they spread to Coahuila, Texas, Puerto Rico, Argentina, and finally Louisiana in 1769. Segundones and the lust for the peso fuerte ensured the maintenance of familial connections with cousins now long past the fifth degree. My own level of curiosity over this question of "origins" did not fare so well under DNA scrutiny given that it made me a U6b! But hey, blame it on my maternal ancestors! As for the continued European connection, blame that on the brevity of European breeding and the longevity of their American counterparts. By the way, I still attend Feria in Sevilla!
 
Now wasn't that more than you wanted to know, Omar?


Edited by drgonzaga - 25 Feb 2010 at 10:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 11:49
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

I'm kalmyk of mongolia not of russia, ok? Kalmyk are mongols.
Kalmyks homeland is mongolia-Dzungaria or northern Xinjang.Southern Xinjang is turkic land, OK?
Are you turkic?I am mongol.Chechens &kalmyks many time fought with each other.
Kalmyks helped to Russia to conquer Caucasus and it's originated these problem.Are you live in Russia?I think sure.
 
Kalmyks homeland is indeed Dzhungaria and modern Eastern kazakhstan. It's not Mongolia. Khalkha-Mongols were one the most persistent and dangerous enemy of Kalmyks.
 
Mongols, in fact, massacred all the Dzhungars/Oirats together with Manchus in Dzhungaria.
 
You're not Kalmyk, I don't know who you're. Even if you are Kalmyk you are Kalmyk-mankurt (if you know what it is) or something like that.
 
All the Kalmyk folklore and epic is about fighting with Mongols. Also, the war of Kalmyks with Chechens in Caucasus has nothing to do with Russians. Kalmyks attacked everybody in the region including Russians as well. But Muscovite state was much more stronger and organized that's why in the end it was able to put Kalmyks under control.
 
However, Kalmyks Southern neighbors inlcuding Chechen, Circassians, Tatars etc. suffered all the time from endless Kalmyk raids.
 
Russia started the conquest of Chechnia only in the 18th century when Kalmyks influence in Caucasus was much weaker than before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 14:35
Stop, stop. are you live in Russia? koz you're know well about russian situation.And how khalkha and oirats can be enemies?Stop lieng!now!

Edited by Reck - 14 Mar 2010 at 23:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 14:36
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

Yes, kalmyks now fighting against chechens but russians forced to made it.I know that chechens& kalmyks hates each other by this reason now.But russians want exactly it koz if russian ethnic minorities became enemies, it's good for Russia, isn'it?
 
Stop dissiminating nonsense. It's good for Russia? Russia needs stability at home it doesn't need any hate between its ethnic minorities. The whole "official" state ideology of the Russian state is against any hate and about reconciliation between Russian ethnic minorities. The Russian state can't benefit at all from any potential inter-ethnic conflicts in its territory. It's obvious for everyone.
 
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

I don't think Baraev's worst man of history.He's brave man.
 
Baraev shot a helpless women in the head in front of the hall full of crying childred and terrified old people. Which included BTW not only Russians, but Kalmyks, Tatars, Kazakhs etc. And I don't think any Kalmyk would consider that "brave."
 
Anyway, I don't know where you're from, but what you write has nothing to do with Kalmyks or Mongols, may be you're some Wahhabi brainwashed Hazara. But your state of mind doesn't indicate anything "Mongolian."
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 14:36
drgonzaga, what's your nationality?

Edited by Reck - 19 Mar 2010 at 23:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 15:02
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

Stop, stop.I am oirat-western mongolian of mongolia, Ok? Kalmyk and oirat sometimes used in one mean but sometimes in different mean, Ok?Oirats composed of dorvod, bayad and kalmyks.
 
Ok you're Oirat, not Kalmyk, very good.
 
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

I am not real kalmyk i am oirat and i'm never been in Kalmykia, Ok?Sarmat, why your don't understand that Dzungaria is mongolia?
 
 
Because Dzhungaria is not Mongolia.
 
 
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

Oirats are separate nation?
 
 
Of course they are.
 
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

Northern Xinjang and some part of eastern Kazakstan is of mongolia, isn'it?
 
 
Yeah, ask Kazakhs whether it's Mongolia... May be Baghdad and Moscow are "Mongolia" too because Mongols were there at some point of history...
 
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

And I already asked you, are you live in Russia?
 
 
I live in the United States of America
 
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

koz you're know well about russian situation.
 
 
Yeah, you realized that. I know indeed a lot about the Russian situation, and you don't know very much about it, unfortunately.
 
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

And how khalkha and oirats can be enemies?Stop lieng!now!
 
 
LOL
 
That's really interesting. Are you really "Oirat"?
 
Upgrade your knowledge.
 
Oirat wars with Khalkhas
 
 
Oirat genocide, commited by Manchu and Khalkhas:
 
 
Do you know who is the most famous butcher of Oirats?
 
Mongol prince Cebdenjab


Edited by Sarmat - 25 Feb 2010 at 15:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 15:08
Are you  pro-russian?


Edited by Reck - 14 Mar 2010 at 23:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 15:09
What bad Russians did to you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 15:16
Stop lieng! Sarmat?Why are u hiding ur nationality?
 


Edited by Reck - 14 Mar 2010 at 23:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 15:17

I asked ur nationality, Sarmat!?!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 23:45
My ethnicity is Russian.
 
And I don't want Mongols and Kalmyks be enemies or something. It's just funny when you're blaming Russia in killing Kalmyks when Russia had never really an intention to exterminate Kalmyk or do something like that; and while it were, in fact, Mongols who commited the biggest genocide of Oirats in history.
 
There was also a very controversial khan Ubashi who lead the majority of Kalmyks "back" to Dzhungaria through Kazakhstan where most of the people died or were massacred and enslaved by Kazakhs.
 
In the end when very few Kalmyks reached the former Dzhungaria they realized that Chinese rule was much more harsh than Russian. So, there is a Kalmyk proverb "We changed Russian rope bit to Chinese iron chain"
 
When many people later wanted to flew back to Kalmykia they were not allowed by Manchu and were resettled in the remote regions of the Chinese empire.
 
I am not saying that Russia was always so nice and kind etc. that is nonsense as well.  But it is stupid to dissiminate false messages like "Kalmyks just wanted to return to Mongolia and Russian killed them etc." while that is complitely untrue. Russia only wanted Kalmyks to return back, but it doesn't have any intention of erasing them from this world as Manchu did with help of Mongols.
 
Stalin deported Kalmyks to Siberia but bear in mind that he also killed millions and millions of Russians as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 01:08
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

drgonzaga, what's your nationality?Man must have any ethnic identity! are you're from alien planet?
 
Why? The assertion of ethnicity as some sort of social endowment of grace is an atavism! You really do not want to know what I think of "nationality"? In a way, the term evokes a reaction akin to notice of a social disease (STD)! I thought my response to Omar's inquiry clarified matters as much as any contemporary DNA test might: identity lies in individuality not in the herd. You might not like to hear this from an old man but both ethnocentrism and nationalism are psychoses exhibited by small minds.
 
PS: Please do not confuse the above conclusion with the junk Science so beloved in certain circles that produced this bit of pernicious cant:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPQR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 06:03
Nationalism is a disease in my opinion, I mean it's ok to love your country but always question your country too.

There is a quote I like I forget the name Zora something that state "I will fight for my country, but I will not lie for her."
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 06:25
SPQR, you're right, but some ppl don't understand it.I suggested don't originate any quarrel.drgonzaga, u're mixed man /turkic-europe? / and i suggest u first know about
central asian , then write.u knowledge about central asian not well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 06:31
The quote is from Zora Neale Hurston (1890-1960), the grand American writer, whom I had the grand fortune to meet as a young man in South Florida! She died in 1960 and one thing she did not do was follow the herd. Her opinion that one fights for civil rights by one's own efforts and not that of the crowd did not endear her to the later Black Panther crowd nor the likes of the 60s Liberals since she fully ascribed to conservative social values.  
 
See:
 
Her book Their Eyes Watching God (1937) is an American classic. Self-reliance was her credo.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 06:47
international forum always full of quarrel, it's almost common.but i never first began any quarrel, i can't talk with man who's with uncertain ethnic, u can't define own ethnic identity so, first do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 06:56
Reck, I will assign your inability to comprehend solely to unfamiliarity not only with English but to my posting history. I can manipulate the history of Central Asia quite well thank you, either from the perspective of the Manghuolunniucha tuochaan or the contemporary socio-political and anthropological literature. One piece of advice, you will not endear yourself by calling people "liars" nor assume that because you are contradicted your opponents are "ignorant"! One may have divergences of opinion in interpretative matters, but--I suspect--that your reactions are simply the product of unfamiliarity. Or did not my posting of a particular picture give you pause?  
 
For example, you wrote:
 
I suggested don't originate any quarrel
 
Yet, in the playing with avatars that were in the height of bad taste (one even taken from an Afghan polemic), those actions could not be interpreted other than within a quarrelsome milieu. As Etshuu Otgonbayar knows quite well, Mongol identity does not depend upon falsifying imagery.


Edited by drgonzaga - 26 Feb 2010 at 07:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 07:05
i said that "liars" koz u're liars.Kalmyks and Huns all mongols, if u don't know about it then don't say that i know about central asian and world history, ok?

Edited by Reck - 27 Feb 2010 at 20:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 07:11
and again, what's ur
ethnicity?if u don't know own ethnic identity , then don't write.


Edited by Reck - 26 Feb 2010 at 07:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 07:18
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

For example, you wrote:
 
I suggested don't originate any quarrel
 
Yet, in the playing with avatars that were in the height of bad taste (one even taken from an Afghan polemic), those actions could not be interpreted other than within a quarrelsome milieu. As Etshuu Otgonbayar knows quite well, Mongol identity does not depend upon falsifying imagery.
wow, it's only avatar and i already changed these avatars.Also i already suggested u all: don't originate any quarrell.are u don't understand turkic or latin man?


Edited by Reck - 26 Feb 2010 at 07:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 07:23
Once and for all understand that "ethnic identity" in the Modern World is a primitivism that resolves nothing and defines no one except in highly charged negative connotations. The world is too small a place and its inhabitants much too numerous for such folderol; in a contemporary setting it simply becomes a tool for Racism.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 07:25
Reck, calm down.
You can't demand from other people to reveal their "ethnic identity" etc. if they don't want to.
 
You came to this forum to discuss history or for repeatedly asking the question about "ethnic identity" ?
 
Get over it !
 
And besides this topic is about Abdulkhakim Ismailov.
 
If you want discuss ethnic identities of the members of this forum, please open another thread.
 
Thanks
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