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Cremation

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Penderyn View Drop Down
Housecarl
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    Posted: 23 Feb 2016 at 23:06
At a group I attend we were discussing the fact that a major Greek Dark Age burial consists of the ashes of a (presumed) Chief with sword and spear together with a female body with much rich (and un-Greek) jewellery.   We agreed that for a couple it was very unusual to be disposed of by different methods, which led me to think of how fast cremation has advanced in the modern world.    When I was a boy, the local shop was kept by a woman who had been a maid in the house of Dr Price of Llantrisant, who, in the Nineteenth Century) established the legality of cremation in Britain when he burned the body of his son, Iesu Grist (Jesus Christ - I he established the legality of that too).   It strikes me that a young person who knows me in old age will probably see the end of burial, and I wonder what the forces are that make for such changes.
Mochyn i bob un
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wolfhnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 03:20
I think cremation was outlawed by the catholic church for political reasons.  I cannot prove it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 07:15
It's not political, it is that the righteous are supposed to bodily resurrect in the end times.  It is probably true for Orthodox Christians and in different variation for Orthodox Jews (when the Messiah comes).

In this model of bodily resurrection, cannibalism is especially problematic.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 10:54
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

It's not political, it is that the righteous are supposed to bodily resurrect in the end times.  It is probably true for Orthodox Christians and in different variation for Orthodox Jews (when the Messiah comes).

In this model of bodily resurrection, cannibalism is especially problematic.  

I know that is what they say but it is hard to believe they didn't know bodies decay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 14:32
You would have to look at a catechism, the answer probably has something to do with Aristotelian Physics, Substances and properties.  If you're talking about the end times, I am sure the miracle of a little reconstitution of physical bodies wouldn't be a problem.

If the end times come, bodies of the faithful will reconstitute themselves.  Personally, I think such a claim is a safe one to make, because I don't think the end times will ever come.  Same with the rapture.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 14:43
You didn't know I went to catholic schools?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 14:51
Maybe you've mentioned it, but I don't think so.
So look up your old catechism and see what it says.
If you have one, I have one, somewhere, and I am not Catholic.
Nor did I go to Catholic schools.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2016 at 23:02
When it was frowned on by Anglicans, my Father - against his better judgement - agreed to scatter the ashes of a close friend.   The Postwoman arrived sniffling with a large envelope, saying 'This is Mr Clough'.   My Mother put him on the mantelpiece, and he fell into the fire, but, fortunately, most of him survived this second cremation and was saved to be blown into my Father's eye when distributed in the Churchyard and a strong wind.    I suppose such prosaic details made for difficulties at first, but they do decrease - Dr Price faced a howling mob, whereas now it is merely the pressure of the next on the conveyor-belt. What I found interesting about my earlier example is that the Mycenaean Greeks apparently went in for inhumation exclusively, the Classical ones for cremation, and it shifted in the Dark Ages, though the gods don't seem to, or not totally.    I'd have thought, in terms of the current discussion, that even the dimmest theist could see that if a person was created once, he/she could be duplicated with some ease, even if the bits were devoured entirely, so I do wonder whether religious belief can be the only reason.   The sheer cost of marriages and funerals in some societies, for instance, does seem to influence their frequency.   Several of my ancestors certainly seem to have preferred to save the money spent on Victorian social status.
Mochyn i bob un
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2016 at 20:22
Quote I know that is what they say but it is hard to believe they didn't know bodies decay.

Of course they knew that, but decay was unavoidable whereas cremation was deliberate destruction of the bodily remains. The issue emerges in the Roman Empire when Christians began interring their dead in subterranean catacombs (and they still exist) in order that the dead would be able to rise again, an important selling point for the new religion.

Also we have to see that burning bodies had elements of consignment to Hell which is often underplayed. The later punishment of 'burning at the stake' was not only designed as a fitting and cruel punishment, it was sending off the criminal experiencing what they were going to find in the hereafter.

Prior to that Roman society cremated their dead as a matter of practicality - though research suggests local rites still persisted, and the bodies of gladiators - who were not interred in public cemetaries - were not always dealt with so humanely. Some cemetaries for gladiators existed but do not account for the numbers known to have died. Researchers normally assume that the excess bodies were thrown into the Tiber, but on that point there's precious little evidence.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2016 at 15:51
Of course, part of the importance of Pompei is that there was a whole town whose citizens were covered
up in ash and preserved, in contrast to the normal process in Roman society, of cremation.
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