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Classification of the Huns

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    Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 13:24
The Huns have long been classified as a "Turkic-speaking" people, yet there is no surviving evidence of the language that they spoke.

I am curious to know how scholars could arrive at this conclusion so quickly.
Or in other words, what made them discard alternative theories, such as Iranic, Finno-Ugrian, o Mongol origin?

Were the Huns really so different to the nomads that preceded them, such as Scythians and Samartians?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fusong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2012 at 15:40
They were sure hostile enough to the Smartians and the Skyths im pretty sure the huns were diffrent the huns were more like "eastern nomads" like the Xixiongu and the Saka Raka
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 19:49
Other theories are not completely discarded. Just the Turkic theory is the most likely one. Besides, the Huns apparently were a consideration of different nomadic peoples, but their elite was most likely Turkic speaking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 21:24
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Other theories are not completely discarded. Just the Turkic theory is the most likely one. Besides, the Huns apparently were a consideration of different nomadic peoples, but their elite was most likely Turkic speaking.

But if linguistic evidence were so scarce, what was the basis of this speculation? Could Turkic peoples be distinguished from Mongolic, Iranic, or Uralic nomads by anything other than language? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rugila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2012 at 10:06

Huns come from elder son of Oguz Han,whose name was Gun Han, Oguz Han considered as ancestor of turks, turks – huns deified him as god of war,according to legends Oguz Han’s army  was guided by wolves, who has been totems of turks, actually the word “oguz” has more ancient origin which means in turkic shamanistic terms  as the “source of all being”, later on Oguz Han was worshipped as god of war: Oguz- Chaos. According to legends Attila the Hun allegedly found the sword of god of war-Chaos (his grand ancestor Oguz Han’s) thus the rule over the world was given to Attila by supernatural powers. The similarities of etruscan deities and turks-hunnic deities and also similar shamanistic rituals shows that nothing so simple with huns, indeed they were most enigmatic nation same as etruscans. The way how they buried their kings, magic rituals and or rituals of sacrificing most beautiful black horses and  so on.

P.S
AETIUS was defeated at cataloons plains,this is actually what did happen. History is a science not european fairy –tales.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2012 at 22:38
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Other theories are not completely discarded. Just the Turkic theory is the most likely one. Besides, the Huns apparently were a consideration of different nomadic peoples, but their elite was most likely Turkic speaking.

But if linguistic evidence were so scarce, what was the basis of this speculation? Could Turkic peoples be distinguished from Mongolic, Iranic, or Uralic nomads by anything other than language? 
 
Well. I also believe that some Chinese sources directly point that Turks originate from Xiongnu (in fact in ancient Chinese the first name of this name was pronounced as "Hun" not "Xiong"), so in a sense it means that ancient Hunnu were proto-Turks and if we accept that those Hunnu were, in fact, the main ethnic component of the European Huns (which is likely), then that Chinese chronicles' observation can serve as a proof of Turkicness of Huns.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2012 at 23:05
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:


But if linguistic evidence were so scarce, what was the basis of this speculation? Could Turkic peoples be distinguished from Mongolic, Iranic, or Uralic nomads by anything other than language? 


There are always names, toponyms, hydronyms, some words mentioned in Chinese, Latin and Greek sources. Besides, there is quite a big difference in customs between, say, Turkic and Iranic tribes and those can be studied  by Archeologists. But as Sarmat pointed out, the core was Turkic but the Empire united lots of different tribes, not only Turkic speaking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2012 at 10:17

Although, with regard to customs, there may be some confusion. Many Hun customs, like for example skull deformation practice and also worship of the sword are similar with those of Huns and Scythians. In fact, even many of Turkic customs described by later Medieval chronists are almost exactly the same as practices that were used by Scythians. We also know that Tamgas (tribal and clan signs) are identical in many instances for Sarmatians, Scythians, Turks and Mongols. So, I would say that the culture and customs of the nomades was very intermixed and basic motives of it were the same in all the great steppe from Hungary to Mongolia.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2012 at 11:04
You oversimplify the issue. There are always characteristic differences even in customs having the same origin. Or take costumes for example:
http://izvestia.asu.ru/2010/4-1/hist/TheNewsOfASU-2010-4-1-hist-42.pdf
There is a substantial information about what people wear in different regions and times and archeologists develop classification and the found artifacts and obviously try to correlate this with available historical data.

Although I agree with you, interpretation of the data may be different.


Edited by Anton - 22 Apr 2012 at 11:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 07:54
According the some sources, the Xiongnu, Gokturks, Avars, Scythians and Samartians wore their hair long and braided. The European Huns, Bulgars, Kypchaks and Pechnegs shaved their heads, or growing just one lock of hair.
Are these descriptions reliable?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rugila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 13:38
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

According the some sources, the Xiongnu, Gokturks, Avars, Scythians and Samartians wore their hair long and braided. The European Huns, Bulgars, Kypchaks and Pechnegs shaved their heads, or growing just one lock of hair.
Are these descriptions reliable?



Somewhere I heard that ancient mongolian and chinese sources called scyths and hunns as the “hairy, shaggy demons” and actually this is a fact that mongolians and chinese are bare skinned.

By the way, why all nomads tribes names have the ending  as – “arian - ari ”? For example the core of hunns were turkic tribes as kutrigarians, utrigarians,akatsarians,bulgarians.
Also we can cite other examples such as – Bulgarians,tatarians,suarians,kangarians,bashkirians,azerians,avarians,khazarians,misharians,salarians,onogurians,uygurians, majarians and so on. Apparently this shows that arians really have existed, and have left marks such as uppermentioned names endings. I don’t state that all of mentioned tribes are arians LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 16:26
I sense a proto war coming
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2012 at 19:13
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

I sense a proto war coming


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diviacus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2012 at 09:12
Originally posted by Rugila Rugila wrote:

By the way, why all nomads tribes names have the ending  as – “arian - ari ”? For example the core of hunns were turkic tribes as kutrigarians, utrigarians,akatsarians,bulgarians.
Also we can cite other examples such as – Bulgarians,tatarians,suarians,kangarians,bashkirians,azerians,avarians,khazarians,misharians,salarians,onogurians,uygurians, majarians and so on. Apparently this shows that arians really have existed, and have left marks such as uppermentioned names endings. I don’t state that all of mentioned tribes are arians LOL
 
Thanks for the joke, but you missed the Bolivarian, Equatorian and others...
Another idea : as your assumption doesn't work in French (Bulgares, Tatares, Azeri, Ouigours,...and Ariens), we must at least conclude that the Arians didn't speak French. I wouldn't take the risk to say that they certainly spoke English...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote histur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2012 at 10:26
In this site you can find interesting theories about Huns also: http://www.hungariancalendar.eu/en.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 04:13
There will never be a consensus on what any of us think the Hun language was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 04:23
Originally posted by Penelope Penelope wrote:

There will never be a consensus on what any of us think the Hun language was.


Welcome back Penelope. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 04:34
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by Penelope Penelope wrote:

There will never be a consensus on what any of us think the Hun language was.


Welcome back Penelope. Smile

Wow! Someone remembers me!!!EmbarrassedLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 05:30
Originally posted by Penelope Penelope wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by Penelope Penelope wrote:

There will never be a consensus on what any of us think the Hun language was.


Welcome back Penelope. Smile

Wow! Someone remembers me!!!EmbarrassedLOL


Yes. I remember when you & Justinian were made moderators from the old site. How have you been?


Edited by Panther - 09 Dec 2012 at 08:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 07:49
I'm doing really good, how bout yourself?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 08:48
Not too bad. Actually truth be told, been pretty busy trying to dominate the world, but darned if everyone and their cat is resisting all my efforts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 11:10
Thank God for the cat Thumbs Up

And I remember you too, Penelope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2012 at 05:54
Thats wonderful to hear Panther, and gcle thanks, i remember you both. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 10:04
The consensus is that their language was Turkic period
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 03:50
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

The consensus is that their language was Turkic period

Its not a general consensus though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 11:56
WOW - great to see you back Penelope. Welcome  Hug
I don't think we have seen you since 2009..
 
 
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2009? That's like yesterday to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 14:42
Originally posted by Penelope Penelope wrote:

Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

The consensus is that their language was Turkic period

Its not a general consensus though.

If everyone agrees on just a few key points, can that be said to be a colonel consensus?
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