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Christopher Columbus

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 20:22
50 years ago I saw a reference in an old norse script with a word very similar to the one more of you have mentioned earlier. 
The word was "Omerike" where we know that "rike" means land and "ome" was an expression for the edge of the world .... the world far out.

I have never been able to look it up again - maybe because I never got a chance to visit the same library again.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 02:30
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I think that you mean Geniza (Genizah), not Ginza.  Ginza is a district of Tokyo.  Geniza is a repository for worn out Jewish documents, of which the Cairo and the Afghan Geniza are examples.  But, if it is in the Geniza documents or the Mandaeans it is safe from me.
Ginza are the holy books of the Mandaeans. http://gnosis.org/library/ginzarba.htm


Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Anyways, we are a long way off from Christopher Columbus.  From my understanding, the Arabs were cutting off the trade routes to the East, and the Venetians dominated what was left of those routes.  Portugal controlled the route around the Cape of Good Hope.
Portuguese Templars controlled the trade around the horn of Africa and had a port in Old Goa India. They built a fort, amassed great wealth. Some were eventually driven off and some were stranded there, just like in France. The fort still exists today. Multiple grave markers are preserved in old Goa and all 22 Portuguese grand masters are honored in writing. 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 23:34
in wiktionary, riki is 'state' in Old Norse, and, maybe Icelandic.
Didn't see anything for Om, but you might run through wiktionary, varying the vowels particular, also ohm, ahm....  Of course, spelling was not standardized, until about the time of the enlightenment, for some dialects later.  The Scottish philosopher, David Hume's family name was sometimes spelled 'Home.'  The English have this preposterous belief that the word, "color" has a 'u' in it. ;)

From what I understand, the Portuguese had an old fashioned book burning, destroying the manuscripts of the Christians in India, because they were "heretical."  I believe that the Indians were followers of Thomas, like those who followed the Gospel of Thomas.  I don't know how much the Templars participated in that (did it), but given human nature I imagine they were in the middle of it, vying for power. 
What is that region quarreled over by India and Pakistan?  Kashmir?  There was a tradition that Jesus' grave was there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 04:42
The OP stated 
Quote Why 1492? Fully discuss the economic, political and scientific factors that made Columbus' voyage possible.

To date we've gone all around what the OP asked for, and, to a fair extent, gone off track.

To be very brief, I suggest that:-
1. The economic was that Portugal, and all of the other so-called Colonising Countries, were searching for new trade markets and opportunities. Minds were starting to open to the fact that there must be a big world outside Europe and it was worth looking for it;

2. Politically, many European countries were vying for these same markets, and in order to capitalise on them, effort needed to be made and money spent on exploring and claiming land for the home country. World dominance by another name?

3. The only scientific factor that I can think of is the revelation that the world is not, in fact, flat, and one would not sail off the end. It therefore made sense that if one put to sea and sailed either due east or due west, one should most certainly find new lands, and benefit from the discovery.

Of course these are the simple facts, and they can be elaborated upon if someone so decides.


Edited by toyomotor - 15 Mar 2018 at 04:49
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 21:13
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

The OP stated 
Quote Why 1492? Fully discuss the economic, political and scientific factors that made Columbus' voyage possible.

To date we've gone all around what the OP asked for, and, to a fair extent, gone off track.

To be very brief, I suggest that:-
1. The economic was that Portugal, and all of the other so-called Colonising Countries, were searching for new trade markets and opportunities. Minds were starting to open to the fact that there must be a big world outside Europe and it was worth looking for it;

2. Politically, many European countries were vying for these same markets, and in order to capitalise on them, effort needed to be made and money spent on exploring and claiming land for the home country. World dominance by another name?

3. The only scientific factor that I can think of is the revelation that the world is not, in fact, flat, and one would not sail off the end. It therefore made sense that if one put to sea and sailed either due east or due west, one should most certainly find new lands, and benefit from the discovery.

Of course these are the simple facts, and they can be elaborated upon if someone so decides.
Speal for yourself.
The Templars were the money & the building & the political behind voyages from the Iberian Pennisula directly led by the Order of Christ or the Templars of Tomar. Suddenly 
Isn't Wiki good enough for you guys anymore?Tongue

Tomar (Portuguese pronunciation: [tuˈmaɾ]), also known in English as Thomar, is a city and a municipality in Santarém District in Portugal. The town proper has a population of about 20,000. The municipality population in 2011 was 40,677,[1] in an area of 351.20 km².[2]

The town of Tomar was born inside the walls of the Convento de Cristo, constructed under the orders of Gualdim de Pais, the fourth grand master of the Knights Templar in the late 12th century.

Tomar is one of Portugal's historical jewels and more significantly was the last Templar town to be commissioned for construction. Tomar was especially important in the 15th century when it was a centre of Portuguese overseas expansion under Henry the Navigator, the Grand Master of the Order of Christ, successor organization to the Templars in Portugal.



Edited by Vanuatu - 17 Apr 2018 at 21:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 04:55
While being informative, your post doesn't really address the OP which is
Quote Why 1492? Fully discuss the economic, political and scientific factors that made Columbus' voyage possible.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 15:45
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

While being informative, your post doesn't really address the OP which is
Quote Why 1492? Fully discuss the economic, political and scientific factors that made Columbus' voyage possible.

This is a response to your post. You don't mention science in your comments, for good reason.

Does the original author want to understand the science behind navigation? Weather? Trade Winds?
Which branch of science?

The inquiry into "SCIENCE" deserves a little more clarity, it's a mammoth subject.


Edited by Vanuatu - 22 Apr 2018 at 15:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 15:51
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

While being informative, your post doesn't really address the OP which is
Quote Why 1492? Fully discuss the economic, political and scientific factors that made Columbus' voyage possible.

The author of post isn't even involved in the discussion, how fully do you want to discuss this subject?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 04:18
Well, the economic imperative was always to accumulate more wealth, that's why Christo set off for India to trade for spices, silk etc. (or did he really set off for the East Indies-now Indonesia?)

That he ended up somewhere entirely different and went in pursuit of gold was a stroke of luck.

As for the science, that relates to his navigation as far as I can see, and if history has recorded it properly, he mucked up big time.

Politically, Spain, Portugal, England and France were at the forefront of colonising overseas territories. I think that apart from the power they could exert, this was also linked heavily with trade and what goodies they may have reaped from the newly colonised country.

If you like, and only if you like, these could be expanded upon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 04:28
Yes.Please do. 

The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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