| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - California Homeless Street Toilet
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


California Homeless Street Toilet

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1711
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: California Homeless Street Toilet
    Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 03:20
Nancy Pelosi, your district and Governor Jerry Brown with the collective looney left; the good intentions towards helping the homeless at the expense of public health and safety have to stop. 
What can be done? 
Institutions don't keep people for years and years anymore. Some of it must be illegal immigration,  over 22,000 known addicts living on the street in San Francisco, 4-5000 mentally ill homeless.

Is there an ancient source of wisdom that applies here?
  
1

http://https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-04/20lbs-human-waste-major-medical-convention-abandons-san-francisco-citing-street
It’s actually not hard to see why tourists would look for a nicer place to visit. The city is filled with homeless campsopen drug use in public areas, and petty crime. There were 31,000 thefts from vehicles reported in 2017, which works out to 85 per day. Garbage, drug needles, and human feces are ubiquitous sights and smells on the streets. Just yesterday a local news station ran a story about multiple complaints about a 20-pound bag of feces that was abandoned on the street.


Edited by Vanuatu - 07 Jul 2018 at 03:38
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 04:08
Vanuatu wrote
Quote Is there an ancient source of wisdom that applies here?

Buggered if I know what the answer is.

It seems to me that unemployment, homelessness, drug use, mental health and crime are all intertwined.

Add to that list the fact that many young people have no respect for authority, other people and other people's property. In many homes the long established "nuclear family" has broken down-whether that's been brought about by bad parentage or deteriorating community standards, I can't say.

It's my belief that, in Australia, many young homeless people are homeless by choice, because they refuse to conform to usual parental controls. Of course that's not the only reason.

Perhaps they should all be rounded up and taken to live in a kibbutz?Wink
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1711
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2018 at 04:53
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu wrote
Quote Is there an ancient source of wisdom that applies here?

Buggered if I know what the answer is.

It seems to me that unemployment, homelessness, drug use, mental health and crime are all intertwined.

Add to that list the fact that many young people have no respect for authority, other people and other people's property. In many homes the long established "nuclear family" has broken down-whether that's been brought about by bad parentage or deteriorating community standards, I can't say.

It's my belief that, in Australia, many young homeless people are homeless by choice, because they refuse to conform to usual parental controls. Of course that's not the only reason.

Perhaps they should all be rounded up and taken to live in a kibbutz?Wink
There may also be an element of enabling going on. Seems to have been tolerated and simply grown out of control.
I don't think people should be allowed to sleep on the street. Public health problem.

What about panhandling? 
It shouldn't be necessary in this country.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 04:33
Vanuatu wrote
Quote  There may also be an element of enabling going on. Seems to have been tolerated and simply grown out of control.
I don't think people should be allowed to sleep on the street. Public health problem.

What about panhandling? 
It shouldn't be necessary in this country.

1. If it hadn't have been tolerated, what would the answer have been? Provide accommodation for them at public expense? While I mentioned Kibbutzim in joke, providing homeless people with a roof over their heads in return for collective farm work, for a degree of self sufficiency, I don't think is a bad idea. But this is where the PC people step in-abuse of Civil Rights and so on.

2. You're probably right about the Public Health problem.

3. Panhandling, or as we call it "begging" is against the law in Australia. We also had a law called "Vagrancy" (insufficient lawful means of support) but that was sunk by the same PC people. I remember as a young policeman, an old drunken vagrant who was arrested every winter, and the magistrate would sentence him to three months imprisonment on the Prison Farm. Three months of warm bed and three hot meals a day. Prolonged his life.

But these things are not police problems, they're community problems. The community needs to step and solve them.


Edited by toyomotor - 08 Jul 2018 at 04:35
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 3306
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2018 at 22:32
In Detroit in 1964, they would _not_ arrest you for loitering during the Winter, they would not arrest people for loitering until the Spring.  San Francisco probably has the necessary laws, they just are not enforced.  Maybe they could do a "catch and release" program.  Catch them and drop them off in the suburbs or rural areas.  But, really, actually doing something about it is quite hard, something besides passing it on to the next town.  What San Francisco can do is "sour the milk" so that hard cases won't want to stay, and those that do stay will have to play-well-with-others.  Winter does that for a lot of places.

There is a book by Alexis de Touqville. "On Pauperism" when Alexis went to England and Spain, he noticed that England was rich and had a lot of paupers, whereas Spain was poor, and did not have paupers.  Basically, in Spain if you didn't work, you didn't eat, whereas England had a lot of beneficent societies set up to take care of the poor.   
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1711
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2018 at 16:29
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu wrote
Quote  There may also be an element of enabling going on. Seems to have been tolerated and simply grown out of control.
I don't think people should be allowed to sleep on the street. Public health problem.

What about panhandling? 
It shouldn't be necessary in this country.

1. If it hadn't have been tolerated, what would the answer have been? Provide accommodation for them at public expense? While I mentioned Kibbutzim in joke, providing homeless people with a roof over their heads in return for collective farm work, for a degree of self sufficiency, I don't think is a bad idea. But this is where the PC people step in-abuse of Civil Rights and so on.

2. You're probably right about the Public Health problem.

3. Panhandling, or as we call it "begging" is against the law in Australia. We also had a law called "Vagrancy" (insufficient lawful means of support) but that was sunk by the same PC people. I remember as a young policeman, an old drunken vagrant who was arrested every winter, and the magistrate would sentence him to three months imprisonment on the Prison Farm. Three months of warm bed and three hot meals a day. Prolonged his life.

But these things are not police problems, they're community problems. The community needs to step and solve them.
Government grants would help but yes the community has to  take some responsibly and sponsor that population somewhat. Starbucks agreed to have non paying customers in their stores. Drive thru! or don't go at all -crime magnet!
Agrarian displacement- no farms for hobos to work but lots of litter if they would work for food. A days work and a days pay. Keeping it together for regular work week is not really doable for a lot of people. Things like bank accounts are not for the homeless. The homeless benefit from regular contact and upkeep of necessities. A hot meal and a place to sleep is all some people want from the world and I wouldn't deny them that choice. It would be better if boundaries were enforced and an option to being on the street 24 hours a day was offered. And public toilets please !! jasus!
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5009
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 02:31
Quote It would be better if boundaries were enforced and an option to being on the street 24 hours a day was offered. And public toilets please !! jasus!

I agree with you. But who's going to pay for these amenities?
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1711
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 20:37
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote <span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">It would be better if boundaries were enforced and an option to being on the street 24 hours a day was offered. And public toilets please !! jasus!
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb231, 228, 216;">I agree with you. But who's going to pay for these amenities?</span>

Municipal taxes of course. Who paid for the removal of 50lbz of Doo doo?
It must be a consensus that the city should tolerate it. Like all forms of socialism incentive is lost to work hard when you are not even relatively safe.

Edited by Vanuatu - 12 Jul 2018 at 04:33
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 3306
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2018 at 22:06
'Are you going _in_ San Francisco? ... with flowers in your...."

I have never been nostalgic for San Francisco, although it is the home of Dirty Harry.

But it does kinda represent the "choice" Americans have, the radicals like Pelosi, or the barbarians like Trump.  But both are a phenomena of big cities. 
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1711
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 04:49
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

'Are you going _in_ San Francisco? ... with flowers in your...."

I have never been nostalgic for San Francisco, although it is the home of Dirty Harry.

But it does kinda represent the "choice" Americans have, the radicals like Pelosi, or the barbarians like Trump.  But both are a phenomena of big cities. 

Is it a good thing that every national issue is getting attention and noise from all over the country? Has it made everything too hysterical?
What do you guys think?

I can't even think about another presidential election but we should think about housing problems. Low level wage earners can't pay rent without government aid in any state. It's not how I imagined the future, I am comforted by Space Force:)
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1080
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 12:51
Modern society has certain pitfalls and homelessness is as much a concern in my own home town in Britain as California. It is a situation that can open for people very easily if one is not wary - For a while a few years ago, I was beginning to wonder if that fate was heading my way, and indeed, the current policy of the social providers is to keep that threat as a source of motivation for dole claimants. The old system where you were entitled to claim below an income threshold no longer holds true. A claimant must justify his payments and remain on the right side of adjudication on entitlement. It's a very difficult tightrope these days - and recently our local paper underlined this hazard to prosperity in an article on homelessness and the ease with which individuals could fall through the net. I now see tents pitched in a local green space as some people seek alternative and cheap places to live. I've seen shanties built under concrete stairs. And sadly, the doorways of empty shops are often blocked by piles of blankets and duvets. It isn't always an accident of course - there will always be those who cannot maintain themselves in society by choice. But concern is one thing - recently a notorious homeless man known for aggression and poor sanitary habits was banned from the town centre completely. His behaviour is a lifestyle choice, though clearly means to emerge and prosper depends on a certain amount of conformity with societies needs. Too much for some.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 3306
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 23:10
Part of the New Deal was getting unemployed who wanted to work, a job.  I think that economically, the FDR administration did not really do anything, except provide jobs for (some of) those who wanted to work.  It really was WWII that got US out of the Depression, not any government fancy footwork.  

Part of the Great Society was an effort to "rescue" people who did not really want to be rescued.  There was a "war on poverty" and in most cases poverty won.  Good intentions, but in the end, the goals were rewritten to match the results.

One thing Hoover was proud of was the collection of good statistics in accessing the economy, you had to realize what was wrong, before you could fix it.  From what I understand Obama changed that, by amongst other things, dropping people from the list of the unemployed if they "were no longer looking."
Obama finagled with the statistics, at the time I wondered why, since the economy was supposedly getting better, why it seemed that the economy was still sluggish.  There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.  The public perception is no longer accurate, because now the statistics are skewed.  I doubt Trump has really done anything to fix that.

The first thing an individual has to realize (for himself, or collectively, for themselves), is that there is a problem.  The second thing, is to want to change.  The thing society can do is work on incentives.  Motivation is important, but not in an abstract sense.  Hope is a very nice thing to talk about, but ultimately it cannot alone pay the bills.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.093 seconds.