| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - BREXIT?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


BREXIT?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1842
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: BREXIT?
    Posted: 11 May 2019 at 00:59
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

The main reason, I think would be the rationale behind such thoughts.

The Irish have never surrendered and have always regarded the island as one country, regardless of the fact that six counties come under British rule.
Is it wise to continue this resistance? The never surrender rationale would be the reason for a hard border then? EU says it's about criminal syndicates working together, smuggling into Ireland, avoid paying the true price. Much like US/AU politicians.
Christopher Steele, British operative and paid FBI informant wants the money the FBI owes him for the Dossier lol. 

Quote That the world sat by and watched the annexation of the Crimea is an international disgrace.
Okay you've said it again but never fail to omit blame on the Obama admin, undoubtedly you would mention the POTUS if that happened now. Was that the flexibility Obama promised Medvedev after the election?
You didn't blame Obama then and you still don't, when it comes to the Messiah you are totally biased. 

It's fine, just felt it should be pointed out that the world's view of the US wasn't boosted by that isolationist attitude. If by "world" you mean the US then I say it's not something that could have been stopped without world war. 



Edited by Vanuatu - 11 May 2019 at 01:59
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2019 at 08:44
The IRA, via it's political arm, Sinn Fein, are signatories to the Good Friday Agreement, and have fulfilled their part of the bargain.

The recent happenings in Derry are being laid at the feet of a group calling itself The Real IRA, or the New IRA, neither of which is recognised by the established IRA or the PIRA. The murder has been condemned by the IRA establishment.

I don't know yet if the NIPS has charged anyone, or proven links to the Real IRA/New IRA, but it wouldn't miss a chance to beat the IRA around the head.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1842
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2019 at 23:22
http://https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ira-splinter-group-murders-journalist-in-londonderry-the-same-day-nancy-pelosi-visits

I agree that youth, violence and current social pressure is a fixture in history. Some form of it always exists usually young men who don't have work or money. Bands of marauding youths are archetypal even.  
The situation involving this journalist being shot has backstory. It's as a bit more than kids, even kids with fire bombs are a far cry from stockpiling weapons, police searches and the IRA is still in the killing business. 
Some intellectuals are optimistic about the rate of violence going down and that may be true on the battlefield. Close up violence with some "ideal" driving is so frequent, everywhere. Is it just what we should expect, an ebb and flow or is it catastrophic?  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1142
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 21:08
The nature of younger adults is that they're often hotheaded and prone to forming gangs to express their independence from family, desires for a society that conforms to their expectations, willingness to use covert tactics to disregard authority, and the usual hormonal aggression that makes such people like the idea of violence. I imagine that terrorism is exciting for the youngsters drawn to it, a chance to earn respect from their peers, and to feel satisfied that they can take risks and somehow prevail, however pointless it seems to the uninvolved majority.
 
Also we have a situation where there has been a history of hatred within society, almost a civil war waging behind the scenes for many decades, and sadly that sort of sentiment does not die easily among a minority of families where kids are brought up with rebellious ideas and bigoted teaching. Or possibly some are merely youngsters who want the buzz of being rebels for real.
 
I have said elsewhere that cultural identity is not easily erased, and old alignments and motives can re-appear even after generations have passed. Peace is not merely an agreement - it will always remain something that needs maintenance.
 
The truth, on a more positive note, is that the irish majority want to end such behaviour and seek peaceful solutions for the rather oppositional ideals in Northern Ireland.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1842
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 13:38
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Sometimes if you pound your head against a wall, it will move.  But not remotely likely, usually you just get a headache and your brains addled.  Tell them to klick their heels together three times, saying, "there is no place like brexit, there is no place like brexit, there is no place like brexit."

Remember that "home" in the Wizard of Oz, was a farmstead during the great depression.  Kinda appropriate.
Home is home, even if the local past time is to fire bomb police vehicles.(?)Suppose so. 
Big on bombings and Derry folks seem hardcore but not any different from the US activists. 
How do we evolve by going back to the stone age? 
Maybe NYC mayor Bill Di Blasio could consult with Derry and complete the time machine that takes us back to the land of no steel or glass buildings. Let's go back to stone dwellings and spare ourselves tidying up.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 3510
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2019 at 13:18
Sometimes if you pound your head against a wall, it will move.  But not remotely likely, usually you just get a headache and your brains addled.  Tell them to klick their heels together three times, saying, "there is no place like brexit, there is no place like brexit, there is no place like brexit."

Remember that "home" in the Wizard of Oz, was a farmstead during the great depression.  Kinda appropriate.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1842
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2019 at 11:56
So there was a journalist killed in Londonderry and it's the first I've heard of this group "Saoradh", meaning Freedom. Republicanism by violence, their mission according to media but you know media.

They separate themselves from Sinn Fein after the Brexit vote and media says they benefit from any failures related to Brexit.
Is this the reason "hard border" was already being politically pushed against by the general public?
Are these kind of outbursts/rioting expected to be routine? In my neighborhood we would expect a heavy police crackdown. thanks

Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/dbf070ca-638b-11e9-b809-6f0d2f5705f6

As a reporter I have been in a few Ulster riots myself but even from social media on the night you can see the Creggan riot had the same vicious carnival-like atmosphere. A communal spectacle, mums and kids, turning out for a bit of excitement. A set confrontation where the rules of engagement are clear on both sides; petrol bombs not bullets, stones not snipers. 


Edited by Vanuatu - 23 Apr 2019 at 11:58
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1142
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2019 at 21:27
The problem essentially is that the British public have made an unexpected and undesirable decision that Parliament is not united in upholding. Add to that the lack of charismatic and effective leadership from any party, and the factionalism present in todays Parliament, not least from the Scottish Nationalists who seem unable to comprehend that their own public voted to remain in the UK.

Another referendum is pointless other than to provide an excuse to revoke Article 50. In any case, it is not constitutional to ask the same question to the public twice. The issue is that too many politicians are deliberately refusing to support anything other than their own treasured concept of Brexit, which defies belief, considering that the EU has made it repeatedly clear that they have negotiated a deal and won't consider another. All the other possibilities are not going to happen out of thin air just because some misguided politician doesn't like the offered deal or its author.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 20:18
Regardless of one's personal perspective, IMHO, BREXIT will go down in history as one of the worst managed political decisions.

True, a slight majority of Brits voted for BREXIT, fed up with the erosion of immigration and employment laws, interference by Brussels in the internal politics of the UK, and so on.

It now seems that if BREXIT is successful, the UK could pay a nasty financial penalty with regards to trade and finance, not to mention the contentious Irish border situation. It is also becoming clear that some of the EU  member states will  also suffer financially if BREXIT comes to fruition.

To simplify, the only reasonable approach seems to be another referendum as perhaps many UK citizens didn't know of or understand the ramifications of  BREXIT when they voted.

The longer this issue remains, the more embarrassing for the UK government which is becoming a laughing stock of confusion and mismanagement.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 3510
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 13:10
Isn't that the point of chaos, is if it stops it is not chaos, (or to the degree it stops it is not chaos).  The big concern is slipping into the abyss.

"Old New York, was once New Amsterdam, why'd they change it, I can't say, people just like it better that way."  [They Might Be Giants]

The Indians would just like it if everybody else just "went home."  (Indian feather, not Indian dot).  In the Southwest US, there is the Atzetlan movement, which wants to claim the Northwest as an Aztec homeland because that is where they [mythically] came from.

btw, Ho Chi Mihn was at Versailles.
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1142
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2019 at 21:29
The only reason for holding a second referendum regardless of what some politicians are spouting is merely to allow a referendum decision to be reversed and Brexit cancelled in favour of remaining.
One would have to say India is better off now. Whether it would have improved under colonial rule is another matter, but India is a regional superpower now and growing economically despite the poverty that plagues the country.
 
The soft border is already protected under rules formulated for dealing with a No Deal exit. It states that no customs checks will take place on border crossings. The only fly in the ointment over this was the Irish Backstop but May has managed to get what politicians were asking for and the EU agreed a legal termination clause.
 
Self determination is all very well - we still have calls for that in the UK, with Scottish, Welsh, Irish, and Cornish groups working for independence (Yep - Cornwall has its own movement. Remember that historically Cornwall was a refuge of 'Welsh' tribes during the Dark Ages, never fully occupied by the Romans, and the relative isolation of the peninsula has always encouraged independent culture.
 
Woodrow Wilson however was not talking about all sub-societies getting their own slice of the action. He was attempting to find a solution to the European issue of antagonistic empires, and since Austro-Hungary had in fact divorced into the Dual Monarchy already (the same guy was the Austrian Emperor and the Hungarian King) plus independence movements in the Balkans had been emphasising local culture, and the case of the Serbs, a series of wars leading to WW1, it made sense to break-up the Austro-Hungarian Empire with defeat becoming obvious to all concerned. Remember that Great Bulgaria, formed by Russia as a a satellite state, was broken up under pressure from the other European powers because it was too strong a foothold.
 
As events in Catalonia showed, asking for independence is not straightforward. In the same way that Spain wants Gibraltar, Argentina wants the Falklands, Morocco wants Cueta etc, current desires are measured against national integrity and historical precedent. Otherwise, as former member of SPQR that seceded in the 5th century, Britain might well be called upon to bow and allow the Vatican to take control. Or does Scandanavia have a better claim to northern England by virtue of conquest and subsequent cultural influence? Texas returned to Mexico. California and Florida returned to the Spanish. Canada and Louisiana returned to the French. Alaska was sold by the Russians, so Putin might not be able to secure agreement there. Where does all this chaos stop?
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 15:25
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I tend to think of Wilson's promotion at the Versailles conference of people's self-determination was a bit of the opening of the Pandora's box.  All these defuse groups now had to promote their "national" identity, often causing havoc for the Empires in which they were imbedded.  Is, for example, India better off after independence, or was it better off under British rule?   I think that the best one can argue, is that India is going sideways in different way than it was going sideways before.  How about those Indian farmers who are killing themselves these days, how has self-determination treated him.

So, if Britain has a right to self-determination, what about the Basques, or the Castellans?

Being very pro-Irish unification, I agree with you. People have a right to self determination.

If the UK does BREXIT or if it doesn't, the soft border between Northern Ireland and the Republic should remain soft or risk upsetting the Good Friday Agreement.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 3510
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 12:04
I tend to think of Wilson's promotion at the Versailles conference of people's self-determination was a bit of the opening of the Pandora's box.  All these defuse groups now had to promote their "national" identity, often causing havoc for the Empires in which they were imbedded.  Is, for example, India better off after independence, or was it better off under British rule?   I think that the best one can argue, is that India is going sideways in different way than it was going sideways before.  How about those Indian farmers who are killing themselves these days, how has self-determination treated him.

So, if Britain has a right to self-determination, what about the Basques, or the Castellans?
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 10:26
Caldrail

So is another referendum the way to go?

What are the financial considerations in leaving the EU?

It seems to me that this issue is as important to the UK as a peoples right to self determination, could it be that the people who initially voted for BREXIT were correct?
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1142
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 22:43
Britain chose by a small majority to leave because of concerns over worker immigration and competition for employment, national determination and identity, and a lack of commonality with European spirit. There were other minor reasons too. Personally I voted to leave because I never liked the European Union. The Common Market was a good idea but a new European power? However carefully they build it sooner or later it will end in tears. Already some member states are struggling financially and across Europe right wing groups are rising in significance.
 
Europe does not want Britain to leave. We're one of the major contributors to their budget and maintain an important financial sector. That's why they kept on fudging and stretching out the negotiation, though in fariness, Mrs May is not the worlds greatest diplomat either.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 3510
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2019 at 13:01
I don't know it might even be worth it in the long run to take a short term loss, instead of being saddled to the rest of Europe, of course Britain didn't adopt the Euro, so I can't see how that can pull them down.

I am not sure why they want a divorce, then again, I am not sure why they wanted to be together in the first place.

I knew a guy who when he got divorces (3?), he just left, let her keep the house and everything.  I am sure that is what Europe has in mind.
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 09:11
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

If you don't get what you want, then whine.  The way I see it, the powers that be assumed what the vote would be, and didn't work the problem ahead of time.  Is that accurate?

Certainly seems to be the case.

Now some are calling for a second referendum. If that were to be held it's likely that "The Remainers" would win. The whole thing was never thought out very well.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 3510
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2019 at 08:51
If you don't get what you want, then whine.  The way I see it, the powers that be assumed what the vote would be, and didn't work the problem ahead of time.  Is that accurate?
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1142
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2019 at 00:48
Spin  is a bit of an understatement right now. Ian Blackford of the SNP (Scottish nationalists) is forever trying to berate the government in terms so blindingly obvious one wonders if he gets his ideas from his morning newspapers. Corbyn seems to have given up asking for a general election (he won't get one before Brexit) and now plays the sympathy vote, forever testing government patience by asking if the PM cares about job losses. The PM tests everyones patience by refusing to back down, though she has of late brought up the possibility of delaying Brexit until June when we will have to take part in European elections in order to get another delay or any further say in euro-policy. She doesn't want that. Truthfully, I don't either, but so many of the moaning minnies filing up the backbenches in Parliament are not really adhering to the spirit of democracy in my view. The issue of whether we leave was subject to a public referendum and the public voted to leave. That's the here all and end of it. To ignore that result is rather anti-democratic in my view, and why we need a second referendum now escapes me. Why? It onlty serves to create a possibility for remainers to change the British direction. Democracy? Let's keep voting until we get the result we want. Whatever happened t the Britain I knew and loved?
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 3510
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2019 at 12:32
"English" if I am correct is like a backspin in billiards or pool.  "Spin" is when politicians or media try to finesse the news instead of saying it, "straight up" (or "neat" in bar lingo) (as is).  So when a 'liberal' democrat in election does better than expected in a conservative district, but still looses, the media often will put spin on it, saying that they only lost by 10 points, instead of 20.

From what I understand, was it Cameron who called for the referendum election at a particularly bad time?  Expecting the election to be a foregone conclusion?  Don't ask the question unless you know you'll get the "correct" answer.  Of course, Putin probably had a hand in it too (whether he dabbled effectively is another question).
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1842
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 17:12
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

The point that I was trying to make is that some people will attempt to associate a cause with a scientific or other momentous occasion in order to attract attention. I could just as easily say that BREXIT is based on the American War of Independence.

More false news!!!Wink
Yea you could!
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2019 at 18:15
The point that I was trying to make is that some people will attempt to associate a cause with a scientific or other momentous occasion in order to attract attention. I could just as easily say that BREXIT is based on the American War of Independence.

More false news!!!Wink
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1842
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2019 at 00:17
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote
And it's suddenly a cultural trigger, effective new age advertising. Anyone can put some English on the their cause.

I don't understand what you mean by this.Confused
Comments from archaeologists enable the press to attempt a link from 
artifacts unearthed near Stonehenge to modern day Brexit as a "tendency" of Britain towards Europe.
The "English"is a billiards effect and the spin is from the media and politically driven scientists.

What a load of .....?
Stonehenge has nothing at all to do with it. It's all about the UK's wish to have more control of it's borders etc.
It's all madness my friend, it's "news" for emotional hemophiliacs.


Edited by Vanuatu - 22 Feb 2019 at 00:17
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 16:42
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote
And it's suddenly a cultural trigger, effective new age advertising. Anyone can put some English on the their cause.

I don't understand what you mean by this.Confused
Comments from archaeologists enable the press to attempt a link from 
artifacts unearthed near Stonehenge to modern day Brexit as a "tendency" of Britain towards Europe.
The "English"is a billiards effect and the spin is from the media and politically driven scientists.

What a load of .....?
Stonehenge has nothing at all to do with it. It's all about the UK's wish to have more control of it's borders etc.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1842
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2019 at 13:38
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote
And it's suddenly a cultural trigger, effective new age advertising. Anyone can put some English on the their cause.

I don't understand what you mean by this.Confused
Comments from archaeologists enable the press to attempt a link from 
artifacts unearthed near Stonehenge to modern day Brexit as a "tendency" of Britain towards Europe.
The "English"is a billiards effect and the spin is from the media and politically driven scientists.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 11:39
Quote
And it's suddenly a cultural trigger, effective new age advertising. Anyone can put some English on the their cause.

I don't understand what you mean by this.Confused
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1842
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2019 at 10:28
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

If the UK decides to go along with the setting up of hard borders, it could eventuate in the loss of Northern Ireland to the Republic. And if you think that the Republic won't do all in it's power to encourage that, you've gotta be joking.
 
And it's suddenly a cultural trigger, effective new age advertising. Anyone can put some English on the their cause. 




Archaeologists must avoid prehistoric Brexit parallels – they encourage twisted readings of the past

February 13, 2019 by Kenneth Brophy, The Conversation

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2019-02-archaeologists-prehistoric-brexit-parallels.html#jCp

...public understanding of prehistory is being shaped by the "Brexit hypothesis". This is the proposition that any archaeological discovery in Europe can – and probably will – be exploited to argue in support of, or against, Brexit, if not by archaeologists, then certainly by the general public.

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2019-02-archaeologists-prehistoric-brexit-parallels.html#jCp


Edited by Vanuatu - 17 Feb 2019 at 10:48
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1142
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2019 at 21:34
[quote]And this is the very point that started the whole BREXIT thing in the first place. [quote]
You would think so wouldn't you, but Britain has been described as a 'leaver' state ruled by a 'Remainer' minority.
 
The EU don't want a hard border any more than Britain, but they are insisting that the periphery of their union is protected from uncontrolled trade across external EU borders. The issue is not whether this border is hardened, but the political implications in terms of the Good Friday Agreement.
 
By illustration, recall Hadrian's Wall on the Scots/English border, where there is a natural escarpment. In that day, tribes were intermarried across that border and the wall was built to control travel across it (not to keep the Scots out as is usually described). As a security border it functioned adequately but there were still occaisions of violence, and please note the Wall, whilst protecting Roman Britain, was defended on the south side by a road and ditch/rampart - the north of England was a wild and woolly place for the Romans.
 
So a hard border would obstruct free trade but not intrinsically prevent it. it would upset the Irish on both sides who don't want a customs frontier on their island, and provide a cause for the less restrained members of irish society to reinvigorate terrorism.
 
The loss of Northern Ireland? We're a nation that went to war with Argentina over a dispute on a protectorate in the south Atlantic. We're a nation that refused to give Gibraltar back to the Spanish. Okay, we ceded Hong Kong. But Ireland is a different matter. Because Ireland was never part of the Roman Empire it has always been instinctively at odds with English culture and understandably isn't comfortable with what many Irish consider foreign domination. But giving up Northern Ireland? If that was the solution it would already be on the table, though one is forced to point out that there is a sizeable number of pro-British nationals in Northern Ireland.


Edited by caldrail - 16 Feb 2019 at 21:35
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 5178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 16:56
Caldrail wrote
Quote  MP's don't like the idea of being tied at the waist to the EU in this way.

And this is the very point that started the whole BREXIT thing in the first place. 

The UK was all in favour of a single EU market but the conditions of being a member of the EU started to rankle many British people. They saw loss of control of their borders, customs and immigration included, and decided to go back to the "old way".

Financially, it's being said that the UK will suffer, I don't know so much. I'd expect a certain degree of confusion and market fluctuation, initially, that will pass.

Neither Northern Ireland or the Republic want the institution of "hard borders" but this is what the EU are insisting upon. If the UK decides to go along with the setting up of hard borders, it could eventuate in the loss of Northern Ireland to the Republic. And if you think that the Republic won't do all in it's power to encourage that, you've gotta be joking.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
Back to Top
caldrail View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2014
Location: Rushey Platt
Status: Offline
Points: 1142
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 22:17
Quote Caldrail, ?
What's this? Are UK citizens getting the same "Invented Brand" news as the US enjoys? 
Do they dislike May bc she held hands with Trump?Tongue
76% of MP's plump for no deal? Since May is a bad PM and er.. doing a bad job.. anyway. As for an actual reason, well umm there is the Ireland backstop, yes EU members would positively balk.
Prime Minister May has made certain strategic decisions about Brexit, not least of which is that she is holding March 29th as the cliff edge. Partly she has good reason. If we dither and extend Article 50, then we potentially never close the deal and Brexit stalls. On the other hand, some MP's are annoyed that she is to all intents and purposes using the deadline as a a form of blackmail. Agree or we go over the cliff in March.  She will not rule out a No-Deal Brexit for that reason - and that incenses a number of politicians.
 
Secondly, May is not the most inspiring leader Britain has ever had. Her speeches have improved just late but often she delivers her speeches in halting and indecisive manner. When she's prepared, she does better. Speaking ad hoc doesn't agree with her. Her role in brexit is peculiar, almost as if she's the dutiful mother of a tearaway son. However, at least she's trying to close the deal, rather than use the deal to further career ambitions like Corbyn has repeatedly done.
 
The EU are in fact greatly concerned at the British chaos over this anf although EU politicians have spoken about their disfavour of Brexit, most simply see it as what the British have opted for whether its's good for them or not. Democracy. You have to love it.
 
Quote So WHY is this backstop essentially the "meat" in the deal? 
Because in order to maintain open borders in ireland - no-one wants to install border checks there - the deal maintains customs union membership and EU rules and no automatic end is defined. Personally, I see it as exactly what it was intended for - a afety mechanism from which a future deal could be negotiated, but many MP's don't like the idea of being tied at the waist to the EU in this way.


Edited by caldrail - 19 Jan 2019 at 22:18
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.