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Blacks moving back to Africa and winning

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pinguin View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 15:32
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drgonzaga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 16:17
Garbage! And having knowledge of Stafford U. Bailey and his "take" on the old notions of Marcus Garvey that essentially premise the racist argument that Blacks can only "make it" in a Black social environment is both pernicious and foolish--although he's making quite a few bucks while at it.
 
Yes, we are now in the world of merchandising and the selling of the "American Dream" in through the marvels of Internet hucksterism:
 
 
And no W.E. B. DuBois did not "emigrate" to Africa in 1961 only to die there in 1963, he was stranded there even though an old man when the Kennedy State Department refused to renew his passport!


Edited by drgonzaga - 19 Feb 2011 at 16:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 16:20
Did you watch the report? Or, as usual, you rush to conclusions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 16:42
Pinguin, one knows the leopard by its spots and I have seen Bailey's work before their youtube transmogrification. Placing aside the invidious substrata of the premises at work I can assure you that politics might even be at work here--you know the sending of American agents to places such as the RSA--how else can you explain Bailey's lobbying of the Congressional Black Caucus? Needless to say, what I have written above summarizes the reaction of American Blacks, something hardly alien to my own world in the setting of Houston's The Gregory School (The Afro-American Library), with which I have daily contact.
 
 
After all the hullaballoo you've made over that C-17 I am totally surprised at your failure to make "connections" here...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 16:54
I see. You haven't seen the report. Watch it. It is interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 17:41
What part of the English language do you fail to comprehend as in " I have seen Bailey's work before their youtube transmogrification". You have simply "bitten" a youtube trailer and now are blathering on as if it is you who is familiar with Bailey and the actual films. Yes, I said films, and these are collectively known as Blacks Without Borders to those with only passing knowledge of Oprah Winfrey! Why don't you go back to the horse's mouth whenever you encounter these youtube snippets and shout Eureka!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 17:47
Well, what about this one? Afroamericans going to Ghana.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 18:46
Oh for goodnes sakes and shades of Alex Haley and Roots! Leave such bunkum to the Tourist Trade. What amazes me here is that you--our resident expert on Europeans playing at being Indians--would not recognize Americans playing at being Africans!
 
Now, if you can not comprehend how useful such bunkum actually is to contemporary Racists--back to Africa redidivus--then you are really out of touch with the social and political aspirations of American society as a whole.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2011 at 19:10
Me? Playing at being Indian?

I am from Colo-Colo, sir!




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 09:35
Is this like Sierra Leone or Liberia?
Where an Invasion of ex-British or American slaves displaced the local population and took control?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 10:41
'The Atlantic Sound' by Caryl Philips has a particular view of such "moving back". I don't actually rate the book, but I suppose it is worth reading.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 11:08
Its hardly that surprising. The Liberian political class have had black American ancestry since the founding of that state.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 11:10
Great idea, that is if the Africans are happy for them to come back and they are happy to go.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 11:33
The examples above aren't migrations to Liberia but into Ghana and South Africa.
I see it from the African point of view. It is important that foreigners move to Africa bringing the "know how" of advanced countries. Chinese are moving to Angola and several other countries as well, and some Afroamericans are doing the same, and the impact can be seen in Angola and South Africa.

In almost all cases, countries need immigrants with enterpreneurship to develop.


Edited by pinguin - 20 Feb 2011 at 11:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 11:49
It has been written:
 
In almost all cases, countries need immigrants with enterpreneurship to develop.
 
That statement is so egregious and insulting as to classify the utterer as little more than some old 19th century imperialist in 21st century drag! The "African" point of view, indeed! NOT!!!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 15:54
Drgonzaga had a temper, once again.

Obviously, Dr., you can't deny that the development in the Americas and the Pacific was the result of settlement of skilfull immigrants. The only country that rejected immigrants in the past as a policy was Haiti... and look what happened there. Confused

That was not the case of East Asia or India, where immigration was small, but you can't deny how important was the foregein influence in the development of countries like Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and finally China. Including India, which wouldn't be developing now without the cultural link it has with Britain.

In the case of Africa, there is no chance they developed by themselves without some foreign boosting. It is not insulting, just see the facts and the figures to convince yourself. Africans themselves are realizing it, that's why they have given opportunities for foreigners (including South African and Zimbabwe white farmers, by the way) to start business there.

Now, those Afroamerican and Chinese immigrants are producing a change, and I think it is possitive for the region.

If Africa needs to be an Afroamerican (or Chinese) colony to develop, let be it.


Edited by pinguin - 20 Feb 2011 at 16:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 20:08
This has nothing to do with temper and is little more than a reminder that once again Penguin you are abusing terminology and definition for the sake of rhetorical absurdities. If you wish to discuss the positives in the attraction of capital investment fine but to call such "immigration" or even the effects of "foreign influence" is Humpty Dumpty talk. A statement such as the following--
 
In the case of Africa, there is no chance they developed by themselves without some foreign boosting
 
is sheer crapola.
 
How would you like it if someone wrote:
 
In the case of Chile, there is no chance they developed by themselves without boosting from Jewish bankers and German educators.
 
By the way the wealthy never emigrate, they have no pressures to do so, it is always the ne'er do wells.
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 21 Feb 2011 at 04:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 22:19
Quote
By the way the wealthy never emigrate, the have no pressures to do so, it is always the ne'er do wells.
Blatently untrue.
More often the wealthy are the only people who can afford to emigrate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 22:43
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

This has nothing to do with temper and is little more than a reminder that once again Penguin you are abusing terminology and definition for the sake of rhetorical absurdities.


It is absurd and rethorical only if surpases your capabilities of comprehension. But that's your problem, only.

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:


If you wish to discuss the positives in the attraction of capital investment fine


Capital is a part of the equation. The other part is the immigration of "skills". Capital usually doesn't transfer skills! That's the point. Immigrants do.

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:


In the case of Chile, there is no chance they developed by themselves without boosting from Jewish bankers and German educators.


And also the British military, miners and industrialists, German technicians, farmers and militaries, Italians farmers and industrialists and (very important) Arab merchants and textile manufacturers.
Even more, no matter there is no mass immigration anymore, the comming of skilfull immigrants have never stoped and they continue to colaborate to the development of the country.

I am not saying that locals don't contribute to progress. I am saying that closed countries hardly progress at least they have official policies of development, Japanese or Chinese style. But those politics are impossible to enforce in chaotic Africa. For them, the smarter way to develop is by bringing skilful immigrants.

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:


By the way the wealthy never emigrate, the have no pressures to do so, it is always the ne'er do wells.


Absurd. The immigration of poors hardly will produce the effect that the immigration of the skilful do. The weathty indeed migrate and skilful as well, given the right conditions. Wars, conflicts but also excess of competition back home, push these people to migrate.

Africa is lucky some people wants to immigrate there when most people just want to leave.






Edited by pinguin - 20 Feb 2011 at 22:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2011 at 22:45
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Quote
By the way the wealthy never emigrate, the have no pressures to do so, it is always the ne'er do wells.
Blatently untrue.
More often the wealthy are the only people who can afford to emigrate.


And the only people that have money to make projects come true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 05:14
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Quote
By the way the wealthy never emigrate, the have no pressures to do so, it is always the ne'er do wells.
Blatently untrue.
More often the wealthy are the only people who can afford to emigrate.
 
If you wish to call the phenomenon known as the "Brain Drain" emigration, you are welcome to do so but such is an exception and not characteristic of what, within historical parameters, is defined as Immigration or immigrants. You might as well be discussing "Capital Flight" or Julio Iglesias having a beach house in Florida and becoming thus an immigrant! Of course, you could fantasize and consider a passage "in steerage" as a sign of wealth but I do believe your are confusing the world of visas and passports as the true historical milieu rather than a relatively recent process.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 11:48
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 
If you wish to call the phenomenon known as the "Brain Drain" emigration, you are welcome to do so but such is an exception and not characteristic of what, within historical parameters, is defined as Immigration or immigrants. You might as well be discussing "Capital Flight" or Julio Iglesias having a beach house in Florida and becoming thus an immigrant! Of course, you could fantasize and consider a passage "in steerage" as a sign of wealth but I do believe your are confusing the world of visas and passports as the true historical milieu rather than a relatively recent process.
 


Ridiculous conclusion.
Obviously there are people willing to waste what theirs poor countries have invested in them, in education, just to enrich themselves, in developed countries.

But that's not what we are talking about here, if you haven't noticed.

We are talking about small merchants and skilful workers that move from more developed countries to poorer in search of opportunities.

Those kind of people was the one that converted the U.S. in the superpower it is. They founded countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa, and also helped Latin America to start its difficult process of industrialization, from the ruins of the archaic societies left by the Spaniards and Portuguese in the Americas.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 13:38
There's emigration and there's 'taking up residence abroad'. The rich tend to do the latter (though not only the rich - me too) not the former. However the US IRS is doing its damndest to make the habit unprofitable, which may put an end to it for Americans, if Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and a few other places go along with the latest attempted armtwisting by the US administration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2011 at 05:10
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Me? Playing at being Indian?

I am from Colo-Colo, sir!




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntbBbDzazN4
You don't look Mapuche, rather like an Spaniard descendant.

Edited by scv - 24 Nov 2011 at 05:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2011 at 08:12
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Ridiculous conclusion.
Obviously there are people willing to waste what theirs poor countries have invested in them, in education, just to enrich themselves, in developed countries.

But that's not what we are talking about here, if you haven't noticed.

We are talking about small merchants and skilful workers that move from more developed countries to poorer in search of opportunities.

Those kind of people was the one that converted the U.S. in the superpower it is. They founded countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa, and also helped Latin America to start its difficult process of industrialization, from the ruins of the archaic societies left by the Spaniards and Portuguese in the Americas.
 
Do not forget that many of the people that invaded the US or Australia, were criminals, religious fanatics, prisoners and similar that also brought the worst sides of European culture over the oceans.




Edited by Carcharodon - 24 Nov 2011 at 08:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 02:26
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
Do not forget that many of the people that invaded the US or Australia, were criminals, religious fanatics, prisoners and similar that also brought the worst sides of European culture over the oceans.


They were angels, compared to Norse, though LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 07:33
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
Do not forget that many of the people that invaded the US or Australia, were criminals, religious fanatics, prisoners and similar that also brought the worst sides of European culture over the oceans.


They were angels, compared to Norse, though LOL
 
Actually the Norse did not totally exterminate whole peoples in the way the colonisers in America and Australia did (just look at the case of Tasmania).
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