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Arizona's immigration law |
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gcle2003 ![]() WorldHistoria Master ![]() ![]() PM Honorary Member Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Location: Luxembourg Status: Offline Points: 13238 |
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Well you did ask for the original purpose in documenting aliens.
As a matter of interest, all the Americans that tok part in the Revolution were aliens originally, no? When did they stop being aliens and become citizens? The constitution implies that they were citizens before the constitution was adopted. ("No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; ...")
Chicken and egg?
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Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984. |
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drgonzaga ![]() King ![]() ![]() Plus Ultra Joined: 02 Oct 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6261 |
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Let us turn to a blatant reality with regard to immigration, the United States and Mexico. Since the enactment of the Patriot Act, not even the U.S. Embassy in Mexico Ciy processes Immigrant Visas from Mexico to the United States. This important paperwork is the sole purview of United States Consulate in Ciudad Juarez--a similar situation also prevails elsewhere, for example in years past you could obtain immigrant visas to the US in the various consulates, now it can only be done at the London embassy--and this funneling carries its own consequence, but the most obvious is the "frustrating" of the application process.
One can note that for the wealthy such is but a minor inconvenience (and there are other means available that side-step this process), hence the system is now prejudiced to frustrate any population movement in any but the most miniscule number. Thus, the operative assumption with regard to a Mexican national absent documentation processed at Ciudad Juarez (or the earlier resident alien document issued prior to 1996) is illegal status and subject to immediate deportation. Yes, we can all blather on about Arizona's quirkiness here but Houston's Detention Center is operating at full capacity:
In fact, Texas operates the largest number of detention centers along the border:
ICE facilities--El Paso, Los Fresnos
Contracted sites--Houston, Laredo
In addition, ICE has long contracted with county detention facilities for the "internment" of illegal immigrants and the subsidy extended these most certainly promotes the ascertainig of immigration status by non-federal officials.
I guess, what I am saying here is let us foreswear from hypocrisy here as far as Arizona is concerned and admit that this state is simply reacting to the more stringent controls prevalent in border states such as California and Texas no matter the ridiculous rhetoric from Governor Terminator!
By the way, the All-American Canal System "spared" California the added expense of border control although now, activists want to install "safety features" so that individuals may safely swim across its rapid current and depth.
http://www.usbr.gov/projects/Project.jsp?proj_Name=Boulder Canyon Project - All-American Canal System&pageType=ProjectPage
http://www.usbr.gov/projects/Project.jsp?proj_Name=BCP%20-%20Coachella%20Canal%20Rehabilitation%20and%20Betterment&pageType=ProjectDataPage
Heck, the issue is a blogger's dream come true!
Edited by drgonzaga - 17 May 2010 at 00:51 |
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Honi soit qui mal y pense
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hugoestr ![]() King ![]() Most Glorious Leader of Muzhnopia Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Status: Offline Points: 5190 |
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That is so bogus. Ethnic studies is just like classics, but specialized on a specific ethnic group. You, of all people, Dr. G, should know this! Besides, it is not believable that the same law that divides Arizonians into those who have to carry proof of citizenship and those who don't claiming that they want to end the Mexican American Studies program because suddenly they are so worried about integrating everyone. This is white supremacist agenda becoming mainstreamed in the GOP. |
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drgonzaga ![]() King ![]() ![]() Plus Ultra Joined: 02 Oct 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6261 |
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Ah dear Hugo, we are not discussing Ethnic Studies in the ivied halls of Academe but what is presented in high school curriculums, not only in Arizona but nationwide. I've "pulped" so much of the published junk that flows through Houston's public library system that I consider the publication of such garbage a definite threat to the Amazonian rain forest! Presenting the utterances of Jose Vasconcelos from the early 20th century in a 21st century American setting is not only pernicious but in a perverse way also represents the furtherance of Racism in a most unique way. However, in this sense "ethnic" whatever is really a particular battlefield in the School Board Clashes and actually symptomatic of the diseases spread by Schools of Education still fighting the 60s Culture Wars. Presenting the Zoot Suit as the apex of Chicano Culture is both demeaning and insulting and any educated "Latino" would wince, but then it is but a repetition of the artificial fancies that brought us Kwanza and Gangsta Rap as "cultural" expression.
Yes, this is a loaded topic where even the most altruistic would be shot dead in the crossfire between the truly committed (and commitable) at each extreme; however, since you have raised the issue just what does constitute "Mexican American Studies"? Certainly, Cesar Chavez can be discussed as an emblematic figure in the American Labor Movement and its history, but hey what does Mexico have to do with it? Chavez was an American story and not some ethnic side show!
Now you know just how grumpy the old Doc can get when the matter touches upon the subversion of Inclusion and Integration for the sake of a separatist mentailty. Edited by drgonzaga - 19 May 2010 at 01:42 |
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Seko- ![]() WorldHistoria Master ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Sep 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11685 |
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drgonzaga ![]() King ![]() ![]() Plus Ultra Joined: 02 Oct 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6261 |
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I could even go one step further and move into the realm of the sadistic by asking for an example of an "ethnic" Mexican! Need I drag out the great fraud perpetrated by one Carlos Castaneda and the pompous pissants of UCLA and their passing fantasy for fact!?! How about this actual fact: the original Texanos were all Canary Islanders! Are they African Americans?
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lirelou ![]() Chieftain ![]() Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 1345 |
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Add my name to the 'mean' list. Ethnic studies have no place at the High School level. First, there are more important life skills (v.g. English composition, Algebra, etc) that need the time, and secondly, the only ethnicity that High School students need to associate themselves is the 'US of A' ethnicity. They need to be educated to succeed within the national economy,
The real problem with ethnic studies is: Who is to research and write all the class materials? Who is to ensure that the materials presented are fair and balanced? Who will the fact checkers be? Who will decide the political questions? (i.e., which of competing, often antagonistic views will prevail?) In essence, ethnic studies are a mine field for any High School. Teenagers don't need to be programmed to feel that they are ethnically superior to others, or that they will be victims merely because of their ethnicity. That 'education' belongs back in the lands and historical period that their ancestors came from. Ergo, ethnic studies are better left to Institutions of Higher Learning, where any time you feel is wasted is your own fault, and not the School Boards. ps: In case you think this is a non-White problem, read a little of Seumas MacManus' History of the Irish Race. The Irish were a noble race of Poets, Warriors, and scholars, and everything evil that ever happened to them was the fault of those damned English. |
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Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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hugoestr ![]() King ![]() Most Glorious Leader of Muzhnopia Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Status: Offline Points: 5190 |
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Hi, Mean Dr. G.
![]() Again, for an anthropologist, you should know better ![]() Mexican-American Studies would be the same as Irish-American Studies, or Scots-American Studies, or Scandinavian-American Studies: the experience of these people in the U.S. Learning history has never hurt anyone. Otherwise we are all here in the process of hurting one another badly. Teenagers are not going to learn to feel victimized in a class that last one or two hours a week. They will learn to feel victimize if they are the subject of racism in society, via laws that force them to carry your citizenship documents with you all the time. If a community, such as the one that has hosted the Mexican American Studies classes, wants to have these classes, they should be free to have them. If parents in Minnesota want to have Scandinavian-American Studies classes, they should have them. If the society makes it easy to integrate, people will integrate because you will make more money that way. It is that simple. |
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drgonzaga ![]() King ![]() ![]() Plus Ultra Joined: 02 Oct 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6261 |
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ROTFLMAO! Perhaps we should also include Italian-American Studies or How the Mafia founded Las Vegas!
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Honi soit qui mal y pense
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hugoestr ![]() King ![]() Most Glorious Leader of Muzhnopia Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Status: Offline Points: 5190 |
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Mean Dr. G,
I honestly don't get your point. I just don't understand what you are trying to say. ![]() But I will try to answer you ![]() If you are against made up pseudo-history, so am I. If the program teaches pseudo-history, that should be corrected, but the field is legitimate. Questions such as how the South West became part of the U.S., what happened to the Mexicans (sorry, Spaniards... ![]() ![]() As for proof of citizenship, does that mean you are in favor of the law? You are not afraid of being harassed? Does that mean that you can pass as white? Oh, goody! ![]() |
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drgonzaga ![]() King ![]() ![]() Plus Ultra Joined: 02 Oct 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6261 |
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Hey, Hugo...por mi raza hablara mi espiritu!
![]() Yes, I am speaking bluntly because the issue of illegal immigration only crosses into the area of "ethnic" studies when such simply become forums for a detailing of all the dastardly actions of the gringos who_______(insert your favorite victimization scenario). By the way, yesterday the Sugarland police intercepted a van (stolen a week earlier from a retired Houston police officer) just chock full (13 to be exact) of "undocumented" aliens. These are now in the custody of ICE--
Edited by drgonzaga - 22 May 2010 at 06:03 |
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Al Jassas ![]() King ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5000 |
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It seems that Arizona is on the verge of declaring war on LA because of illegal immigrants:
Lets see, when was the last time something close to this happened?
Al-Jassas
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hugoestr ![]() King ![]() Most Glorious Leader of Muzhnopia Joined: 14 Aug 2004 Status: Offline Points: 5190 |
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Dr. G. HAS Mex cred!!!
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lirelou ![]() Chieftain ![]() Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 1345 |
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Yeah, Doc. Though I believe Leo Carillo's role was "Pancho", unless of course you re arguing for the Cisco Kid as a take-off of that inmortal hijo de algo of La Mancha.
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Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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drgonzaga ![]() King ![]() ![]() Plus Ultra Joined: 02 Oct 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6261 |
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I have got to learn not to let the mordant get the better of me; nevertheless, you devised the silent implication behind the quotes. Pancho as buffoon is reedemable socially only if you accept the Cervantesque. Otherwise, the character is truly offensive much as was "Sargeant Garcia" in the Disney reinvention of Zorro. However, do not mistake the comment as "evidence" that the old Doc is really among the radicals that have subverted Ethnic Studies and its teaching. Instead, look upon it as reflections upon a book written nearly 30 years ago, Philip Wayne Powell's Tree of Hate (1971) and still in print today. To properly take issue with demeaning caricature does not mean one must resort to the identical tool as response. Ignorant bigots will always be with us, it the "intellectual" ones that are dangerous.
Which brings me to a very "evident" evidence as to the vagaries of the real problem: Sacrifice of Law for the sake of political pandering:
Placing aside the modern phenomenon of "First Ladyism" (the wife as presidential surrogate), the White House Press Office stumbled all over itself in explaining how it would not "pursue" the matter despite the direct admission blubbered by the little girl. That representatives of the Chief Executive rationalized that the Law in this instance would not be enforced certainly violates the presidential oath taken on 21 January 2009 and actually forcefully undercuts the duties of ICE officialdom. Not that the MSM did not hem-and-haw as accomplices:
Of course, one might deduce that that the entire scenario was staged for political purposes but in that event the entire effort backfired as the earlier Pew Survey of 12 May predicted--
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Honi soit qui mal y pense
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Reginmund ![]() Caliph ![]() Joined: 09 May 2005 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 2659 |
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If a state doesn't want immigrants it should build a reputation for harsh treatment of immigrants. People who migrate are seeking their fortune and would not willingly enter a state where they believe they'll be put through pain and misery. If deportations don't do the trick then try something else. Coming up with ways of being an asshole must be one of the most enjoyable jobs imaginable.
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Sing, goddess, of Achilles' ruinous anger
Which brought ten thousand pains to the Achaeans, And cast the souls of many stalwart heroes To Hades, and their bodies to the dogs And birds of prey |
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lirelou ![]() Chieftain ![]() Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 1345 |
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Regimund, in the 1930s, California tried to keep the 'Oakie' refugees from the mid-western dustbowl from entering California. The supreme court ruled that Americans, and that would include those who have legally immigrated to the U.S., have a constitutional right to travel from one state to another. I know of no state that is anti-immigration. Arizona is anti-illegal immigration. And even without this law, Arizona law enforcement agencies were bound by oath to uphold the constitution and laws of the United States, as well as Arizona.
Edited by lirelou - 26 May 2010 at 15:09 |
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Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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Al Jassas ![]() King ![]() Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Status: Offline Points: 5000 |
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No country in the world treats its illegals as Mexico (believe it or not) yet it continued to be a magnet for illegals:
Al-Jassas Edited by Al Jassas - 26 May 2010 at 20:03 |
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Reginmund ![]() Caliph ![]() Joined: 09 May 2005 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 2659 |
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The article makes it rather plain those illegals only go to Mexico because it's the simplest route to the US, Mexico itself isn't so much a magnet for illegals as an obstacle.
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Sing, goddess, of Achilles' ruinous anger
Which brought ten thousand pains to the Achaeans, And cast the souls of many stalwart heroes To Hades, and their bodies to the dogs And birds of prey |
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drgonzaga ![]() King ![]() ![]() Plus Ultra Joined: 02 Oct 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6261 |
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Double bubble, toil and trouble, how about some oil to roil the waters:
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Honi soit qui mal y pense
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King John ![]() Arch Duke ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Dec 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1782 |
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lirelou ![]() Chieftain ![]() Joined: 26 Mar 2009 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 1345 |
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So what you are saying is that we don't have enough evidence yet to state whether of not the the law is causing problems.
Yes, but the majority of illegals in this country are Hispanics. But, that notwithstanding, could you please quote me the part of the Arizona law that states this law is applicable to Hispanics only. I've actually read it, and it says nothing about Hispanics or Mexicans or suspected Mexicans. It is targeted to illegal immigrants. And accepting for the moment your Hispanic illegals versus non-Hispanic illegals argument, would you please quote me the section of the U.S. constitution, or a Supreme Court case, stating that targeting one group of illegals over another group of illegals is unconstitutional. |
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Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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drgonzaga ![]() King ![]() ![]() Plus Ultra Joined: 02 Oct 2005 Status: Offline Points: 6261 |
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Let us give a little History lesson here:
Who said--[H]yphenated Americans have poured the poison of disloyalty into the very arteries of our national life. Such creatures of passion, disloyalty and anarchy must be crushed out!
As a hint, ask yourself when and what were the origins of immigration laws in the United States.
It is quite a circle and almost an inevitability consequent to the vogue for hyphenization as institutionalized identity markers. The irony of it all should not be lost.
That was an exercise in long-term memory...how about an exercise on its short term counterpart:
The Monster from the Blue Lagoon (The Simpson-Mazzoli Act/Public Law No. 99 - 603):
The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 is the most comprehensive reform of our immigration laws since 1952. In the past 35 years our nation has been increasingly affected by illegal immigration. This legislation takes a major step toward meeting this challenge to our sovereignty. At the same time, it preserves and enhances the Nation's heritage of legal immigration. I am pleased to sign the bill into law. Ronald Reagan, 6 November 1986 However, this presidential statement also underscored the glaring loop-holes that rendered the entire effort moot: Edited by drgonzaga - 28 May 2010 at 02:00 |
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opuslola ![]() Chieftain ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Feb 2011 Location: MS, USA Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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Since this entire thread is "political", I will post a political one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWU01NIwGbg&feature=related Certainly the president of a nation with such Draconian laws, respecting illegal aliens, calling Arizona's new law as "bad, bad, bad!" Should have his hair coloured Yellow; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWU01NIwGbg&feature=related Regards, Ron |
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pinguin ![]() WorldHistoria Master ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Status: Offline Points: 15234 |
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![]() By the way, Arizona means dry region in illegal tongue. Anyways. Edited by pinguin - 31 Mar 2011 at 12:04 |
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opuslola ![]() Chieftain ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Feb 2011 Location: MS, USA Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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Actually my fine-feathered friend, the native N. American tribes, have for many years had "freedom of movement" between the 48 US states and both Canada and Mexico!
This is not any hidden knowledge, but is part and parcel of any Border Patrol Agent's training. "Behold, the poor Indian!" ![]() That is, they could not, at least 20 years ago, be excluded nor questioned for an extended lenght of time, by anyone of the Justice Department, working for the Immigration and Naturalization Service. All they were required to state upon questioning was "I am a North American Native American, and I stand by my rights as enumerated in the law." Of course, most of them also carried ID's that said that they were members of such and such tribe. Regards, Ron Edited by opuslola - 31 Mar 2011 at 12:30 |
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pinguin ![]() WorldHistoria Master ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Status: Offline Points: 15234 |
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Interesting!
Here we have something similar. There are some Ecuatorian indigenous peoples, called the Otavalos, that go all over the continent saling theirs textiles, rings and other goods. Once, the Chilean government had the bad idea of deporting them ![]() ![]() Edited by pinguin - 31 Mar 2011 at 12:35 |
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opuslola ![]() Chieftain ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Feb 2011 Location: MS, USA Status: Offline Points: 1009 |
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Perhaps I should have attributed my source for my statement above?
Thus; http://www.quotes-museum.com/quote/68893 Regards, Ron |
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Buckskins ![]() General ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Feb 2012 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 792 |
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The so called illegal alien problem is a load of garbage. If employers like myself had the laws already on the books enforced, it would all disappear. We NEED the Mexican workforce unless you want double or triple prices for beef, veggies, and many other services. I employ illegals because I have no alternative. If they want a secure border then lets get out of Europe and quit protecting theirs.
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May you live as long as you want to,
and may you want to as long as you live. |
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But wait, there's more!!!!! Isn't there an American Department of Immigration, a Federal Government Department? Isn't the Federal Government responsible for enforcing the US Immigration Laws? Hasn't it always been an offence to enter the USA without appropriate visas etc? Can a US State make a law which is the province of the Federal Government? Sounds like a truck load of political BS to me. |
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