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ANTIFA the new Fascists

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    Posted: 30 Jun 2017 at 08:24
The Roots of Left-Wing Violence

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/448275/antifa-protest-donald-trump-roots-left-wing-political-violence
A vague and dangerous ideology There is currently, on the streets, smashing storefronts and setting things on fire, a group called “Antifa,” for “anti-fascist.” Antifa are not a new phenomenon; they surfaced during the Occupy movement, and during the anti-globalization protests of the late 1990s and early 2000s. Antifa movements began in early-20th-century Europe, when fascism was a concrete and urgent concern, and they remain active on the Continent. Lately, Antifa have emerged as the militant fringe of #TheResistance against Donald Trump — who, they maintain, is a fascist, ushering into power a fascist regime. In Washington, D.C., Antifa spent the morning of Inauguration Day lighting trash cans on fire, throwing rocks and bottles at police officers, setting ablaze a limousine, and tossing chunks of pavement through the windows of several businesses. On February 1, Antifa set fires and stormed buildings at the University of California–Berkeley to prevent an appearance by Breitbart provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos. (They succeeded.) In April, they threatened violence if Ann Coulter spoke on the campus; when the university and local law enforcement refused to find a secure location for her to speak, she withdrew, saying the situation was too dangerous. These and similar episodes call to mind Woody Allen’s character’s observation in the 1979 film Manhattan: “A satirical piece in the Times is one thing, but bricks and baseball bats really gets right to the point of it.”

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/448275/antifa-protest-donald-trump-roots-left-wing-political-violence
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2017 at 08:26
So what of it anti-Trump people? Does this feel like a tad much? Burning books and terrorizing people with opposing views can't be liberal so is the ANTIFA a fascist organization?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2017 at 00:20
I don't know what their treatises and manifestos, etc, etc, ad nauseum, say, but I would suspect that no, they are not fascist, they are anarchist.  A fascist is actually "for" something, albeit in a twisted kind of way, an anarchist is against anything that smacks of government or organization above the small group.  Of course, they think they can be organized, for the purposes of opposition, that is.  I think that the anarchists in the Spanish Civil War, are the best example of anarchist actually getting "into" power.  Just because the anarchists in Spain weren't fascists, doesn't mean they were nice. 


Or maybe they are fascist, I don't think so, but they could be fascist and Trump could be fascist.  Think of fascist organizations being like a tribe, just because one group is tribal, does not mean another group is not tribal.  Some leftists believe that capitalism is fascist, I don't think that most of them can explain why.  Or maybe they can explain, but I don't understand what they are trying to say. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 05:55
We have had prominent democrats calling for violence, former Vice Presidential candidate Tim Kaine after Congressman Steve Scalise was shot at a baseball game by a leftist loon. The ANTIFA people are for destroying freedom of speech unless it's the mob speaking. They are for violent mobs, burning books and terrorizing people who don't agree with them. That's a fascist.

"What we've got to do is fight in Congress, fight in the courts, fight in the streets, fight online, fight at the ballot box, and now there's the momentum to be able to do this," Kaine said to Democrats. "And we're not afraid of the popular outcry, we're energized by it and that's going to help us do our job and do it better."-Tim Kaine




Edited by Vanuatu - 04 Jul 2017 at 05:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2017 at 23:33
No, that doesn't sound like Tim Kaine is calling for violence, at least _not_ _physical_ violence.  That sounds like he is calling for public protest, legal action, and legislative action.  Some people would consider any opposition to be "violent," I hope that the United States has not come that far, that is something like Venezuela or Indonesia dictators would characterize their opposition.

Tim Kaine (D, Gov. of Virginia) was going to a conference in Hawaii when the Virginia Tech shooting happened, when they landed in Hawaii he immediately jumped on a plane to get back to Virginia, so he could be there to handle the situation.  He is not someone who is callous or nonchalant about violence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 06:03
Considering the recent violence I don't think Tim Kaine needed to say "fight in the streets." He's trying be Van Jones and Maxine Waters. I find his rage to be dubious and politically convenient. 

Why aren't democratic leaders condemning arson and destruction of property? 

Is this helping the mood and bad blood among Americans?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2017 at 07:46
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Considering the recent violence I don't think Tim Kaine needed to say "fight in the streets." He's trying be Van Jones and Maxine Waters. I find his rage to be dubious and politically convenient. 

Why aren't democratic leaders condemning arson and destruction of property? 

Is this helping the mood and bad blood among Americans?

I think politicians, all over, have mastered the technique of callng for certain redical actions from the public, in such a manner that when they happen, they can stand back and say, "I didn't say that."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2017 at 04:01
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Considering the recent violence I don't think Tim Kaine needed to say "fight in the streets." He's trying be Van Jones and Maxine Waters. I find his rage to be dubious and politically convenient. 

Why aren't democratic leaders condemning arson and destruction of property? 

Is this helping the mood and bad blood among Americans?

I think politicians, all over, have mastered the technique of callng for certain redical actions from the public, in such a manner that when they happen, they can stand back and say, "I didn't say that."



Politicians put people at odds and it's worse now than I've ever seen. I'm sure times have been worse but I don't remember. 

Just between everyday people there are very bad feelings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 03:25
I think your President Trump fired the first salvo at Fort Sumter.  Of course, it is not his fault, nothing is ever his fault....  He is 'just a wild and crazy guy.'

I think there is a difference between looking at protests from on high, vs. from street level.  If you are looking at it from on high, protesting is a right, and for "legitimate" grievances, a social responsibility.  "Unfortunate" accidents are unfortunate, but "nobody's" fault.  "Collateral damage."  Encouraging protests (to the left) is encouraging someone to exercise their rights and responsibilities, but of course they don't mean rioting or looting.
From street level, the merchant is looking at at least an off day in his income, worse, he is looking at a brick through his window, at worst he is looking at looting or arson.  The merchant may or may not support the protesters in their cause, but either way it is a pain in the backside. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2017 at 05:01
Quote I think your President Trump fired the first salvo at Fort Sumter.  Of course, it is not his fault, nothing is ever his fault....  He is 'just a wild and crazy guy.'

He's either the most cunning politician since Robespierre or the most idiotic bufoon ever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 02:54
I believe Robespierre didn't make it to his 40s, so I am not sure how clever he, ultimately, was.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2017 at 11:32
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I believe Robespierre didn't make it to his 40s, so I am not sure how clever he, ultimately, was.

Didn't Robespierre have everything going for him and then lost it all because of his unwarrented overconfidence? Now who else did that? Ah..


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2017 at 06:06




http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/29/pelosi-condemns-antifa-violence-in-berkeley-after-criticism.html
"Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts," Pelosi said in a statement Tuesday evening. "The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa [sic] in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted."

Thirteen people were arrested and five others were injured Sunday after more than 100 black-clad, hooded protesters with masks and weapons attacked and overwhelmed the peaceful demonstrators.




Edited by Vanuatu - 31 Aug 2017 at 15:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2017 at 06:15
Pelosi condemns ANTIFA before fransicosan! Is it safe now that Nanny did it first?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/29/pelosi-condemns-antifa-violence-in-berkeley-after-criticism.html

Pelosi condemns Antifa violence in Berkeley after criticism

Thirteen people were arrested and five others were injured Sunday after more than 100 black-clad, hooded protesters with masks and weapons attacked and overwhelmed the peaceful demonstrators.

"They came with black masks, they carried weapons, they were pounding people down with their fists and feet," University of California-Berkeley College Republican Ashton Whitty told Fox News' "The Story with Martha MacCallum" Monday night. "I knew I had to get out of there."

"Everything was great until Antifa showed up," Whitty added.




Edited by Vanuatu - 31 Aug 2017 at 15:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Aug 2017 at 23:06
ANTIFA is not really part of my world, I don't know much about them.  So you can demand that I condemn them, but I kind of feel like your trying to stampede me into something I don't know.  I generally don't condemn thugs, not because I like them, but because if they cared what people thought they wouldn't be thugs.  Of course, I don't like most protestors that much either.  They tend to be self-righteous on either side.  "Mostly carrying signs, saying hurray for our side"  CSNY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2017 at 01:17
I've just read about ANTIFA, and it seems somewhere to the right of the KKK in it's activities, notwithstanding that it's a leftist organisation.

I condemn, in the harshest possible terms racist groups which claim for themselves racial superiority, similarly, I condemn those groups which seek to force change through violence, regardless of their political leanings.

Similar groups operate throughout the UK and Europe, but we're lucky here in Australia. We have no such violent activism on an organised basis, although from time to time various protest groups do clash and violence erupts, but nothing on the scale of overseas, a few punches and kicks, that's all.




Edited by toyomotor - 01 Sep 2017 at 01:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2017 at 22:36
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

ANTIFA is not really part of my world, I don't know much about them.  So you can demand that I condemn them, but I kind of feel like your trying to stampede me into something I don't know.  I generally don't condemn thugs, not because I like them, but because if they cared what people thought they wouldn't be thugs.  Of course, I don't like most protestors that much either.  They tend to be self-righteous on either side.  "Mostly carrying signs, saying hurray for our side"  CSNY

You may know more than you let on.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 01:08
I know stuff that is tangential to the OP like I always do, it drives toyomotor crazy (short journey<grin> ).  But no, I really don't know about ANTIFA which I have heard about here, but little else.

However,
a friend who is a history buff likes to point out that Marcus Garvey considered his group to be the original fascists.  I cannot find the quote on Wikipedia, but I am not surprised (that I cannot find it, nor that he probably called himself a fascist).  I am sure that ANTIFA's tackling of fascism, does not include the Black Muslims or other black separatists.  It is selective.  Funny part is that Marcus Garvey and white supremacists agreed, they both wanted African-Americans to go back to Africa.  The funny thing is that today probably some of those White Supremacists are dredging up black separatists like Garvey.  It is probably very confusing to them how one thing said by a white is verboten, but the same thing said by a black is not, at least not for "liberal" media outlets.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 02:01
Franciscosan

Quote I know stuff that is tangential to the OP like I always do, it drives toyomotor crazy (short journey<grin> )

Mea culpa! LOL

I hadn't heard about ANTIFA until it was raised on this forum. Don't sound like the sort of folks I'd invite around for tea and bikkies.

But these groups in the USA and Europe receive a bit of media attention from time to time, so called investigative journalists interview them and quote their manifestos, (by these groups, I include white supremacists, other far right wingers and the far left), but the whole concept is fairly foreign to us.

The fact that they receive media attention at all should serve as a warning to us all to be vigilante.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 02:40
CNN talked about ANTIFA during the riots at Berkeley and other cities this year. CNN and other liberal leaning news outlets have down played the violence. 

It suited the Never-Trump crowd to make these clowns look as though they are justified,  violent riots around the US were headline news but from the "look at what Trump made us do" POV.

And No, you have not heard lefty leadership condemn them so most of news has not covered the ANTIFA violence as the storyThe story is always anti-Trump.

Always a tipping point, even Nanny P.(had some back sass over civil war demolition) had to speak up.
Turns out, like all of us nanny ain't as young as she used to be. Maybe she forgot..in 1948 her father Thomas D’Alesandro Jr then mayor of Baltimore honored Lee and Jackson in a very public way. This quote is from 1948- what does she really think ??


 “Today, with our nation beset by subversive groups and propaganda which seeks to destroy our national unity, we can look for inspiration to the lives of Lee and Jackson to remind us to be resolute and determined in preserving our sacred institutions,” D’Alesandro said during the ceremony.

“We must remain steadfast in our determination to preserve freedom, not only for ourselves, but for the other liberty-loving nations who are striving to preserve their national unity as free nations,” he added.

Fox News says Pelosi’s office did not respond to their request for a comment about the discovery.



Edited by Vanuatu - 02 Sep 2017 at 02:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 02:49
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I know stuff that is tangential to the OP like I always do, it drives toyomotor crazy (short journey<grin> ).  But no, I really don't know about ANTIFA which I have heard about here, but little else.

However,
a friend who is a history buff likes to point out that Marcus Garvey considered his group to be the original fascists.  I cannot find the quote on Wikipedia, but I am not surprised (that I cannot find it, nor that he probably called himself a fascist).  I am sure that ANTIFA's tackling of fascism, does not include the Black Muslims or other black separatists.  It is selective.  Funny part is that Marcus Garvey and white supremacists agreed, they both wanted African-Americans to go back to Africa.  The funny thing is that today probably some of those White Supremacists are dredging up black separatists like Garvey.  It is probably very confusing to them how one thing said by a white is verboten, but the same thing said by a black is not, at least not for "liberal" media outlets.  
Marcus Garvey, very interesting fellow. He said that Mussolini and Hitler copied "UNIA" the organization that he started at Liberty Hall, NYC saying "we were the first fascists" 1937. Oh, the FBI wanted that guy soooo badly. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 17:36
What does one need to know about ANTIFA in order to form an opinion? Do we need a personal bio to conclude that the masked man dressed in black holding a Molotov cocktail -is probably not someone who should be encouraged. Serious crimes are going unpunished for years!  

For two years this group has gone into politically charged situations and used the media attention trying to scare the rest of us with violent and destructive behavior.

Some would love to blame Trump and some did. It's just reached a point of absurdity now so even Nanny P has to condemn it. For a politician silence is an endorsement.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2017 at 02:31
I finally read an article you posted on ANTIFA, the California attack(s) and Pelosi speaking out about it.  So what does one need to know? that they are attacking peaceful protesters (who are not overt racists).  The Charlottesville VA incident comes across in the media as one groups of idiots vs. another.  Probably more complex than that.  But you know, I kind of just attribute it to an extension of the University political correctness.  One problem with the Vietnam War was that if you could go to college, you could get out of it.  Before that, radicals were actually out in society.  After that, radicals took over the university, got tenure, and got entrenched.  Of course, later they got into the internet, but in a way that is just an extension of the university for them.  It is ironic because in both the University and the WWW, there is an odd mixture of democratic claims and elitism at the same time.  It is kind of a matter of 'all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal in others.'  (Orwell Animal Farm), ANTIFA believes that they are the elite, that they will save the world.  Again it is a weird paradox that they are the most "worthy" because they are 'protecting' democracy.  Democratic and elitist at the same time.

But no it doesn't surprise me, and so I don't make a big deal about it.  You might say, I'm already numb to such bunk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 05:58
It's a problem that the ANTIFA behavior or brand, wasn't being condemned from the start of violence and vandalism in thinly veiled Fascism. Not in the way that racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, transovania etc are roundly rejected.

Quote Of course, later they got into the internet, but in a way that is just an extension of the university for them.  It is ironic because in both the University and the WWW, there is an odd mixture of democratic claims and elitism at the same time.  It is kind of a matter of 'all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal in others.'  (Orwell Animal Farm), ANTIFA believes that they are the elite, that they will save the world.  Again it is a weird paradox that they are the most "worthy" because they are 'protecting' democracy.  Democratic and elitist at the same time.
Agree. Interesting how it's hard to tell which is wagging which dogs tail eh?


Quote But no it doesn't surprise me, and so I don't make a big deal about it.  You might say, I'm already numb to such bunk.

I'm not numb, still pretty shocked at the level of chaos in the US. I guess I'm not shocked at the Democratic leadership calling for impeachment since day one, just miserable profiteers.


Edited by Vanuatu - 05 Sep 2017 at 05:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2017 at 23:02
Fascism is usually brutal, and proud of it, it is the combined might of the lowest common denominator, the bundle of sticks.  I think that ANIFA are probably a bunch of elitists who would never stoop to hang out with the plebs that they purport to stand for, if they stand _for_ anything at all.  They would consider themselves like Lenin's vanguard.  A revolution cannot happen unless "enlightened ones" such as they do it.   But, again, I may be giving them more credit for organization than is there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2017 at 15:34
Are such organisation strictly legal in the USA?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2017 at 17:08
This kind of thing is loosely organized. It's the new head of the "Occupy wall Street" crowd. And something like the Bilderberg conspiracy theorist who see themselves as fulfilling a revolutionary role against ?? Whatever.

Plotting to show up at these otherwise peaceful demonstrations hasn't even resulted in arrests. What difference does it make? 


This country is so PC we are allowing people to destroy property and assault each other bc they are upset about Trump. Much of it based on misinformation, disinformation and outright lies circulated through out social media. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2017 at 01:23
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

This kind of thing is loosely organized. It's the new head of the "Occupy wall Street" crowd. And something like the Bilderberg conspiracy theorist who see themselves as fulfilling a revolutionary role against ?? Whatever.

Plotting to show up at these otherwise peaceful demonstrations hasn't even resulted in arrests. What difference does it make? 


This country is so PC we are allowing people to destroy property and assault each other bc they are upset about Trump. Much of it based on misinformation, disinformation and outright lies circulated through out social media. 

I see what you mean. Regardless of political pursuasion, people who assault others in this manner should be arrested. I've seen TV news clips of the various clashes, which, IMO, are simply excuses to engage in violent behaviour, rioting and looting. The same sort of thing has happened elsewhere which doesn't excuse it of course.

Like it or lump it, he's your President, and violence won't alter that.




Edited by toyomotor - 10 Sep 2017 at 07:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2017 at 04:41
ANTIFA wants to decide who the fascists are and justifiably in their view, punish them with violence.
It's in the handbook "Redemptive Violence" they call it..and they are not interested in a liberal society.



The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 01:54
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

ANTIFA wants to decide who the fascists are and justifiably in their view, punish them with violence.
It's in the handbook "Redemptive Violence" they call it..and they are not interested in a liberal society.


I watched a TV doco last night, filmed by Ross Kemp, a British TV investigative journalist who often delves into some very dangerous places.

Last night, his topic was race hatred in the USA, and in Texas he interviewed members of various racial groups, black and white, both militant and otherwise.

It's obvious that not only is there racial divide and tension in Texas, as memebers of both Afro-American and White Supremacist groups appeared in public carrying assault rifles. In one segment, a group called White Lives Matter protested at a Dallas location, and were confronted not only by Black Lives Matter members, but a third group, whose aims I couldn't readily ascertain.

The fact is though, members of all three groups were openly and heavily armed with military grade weapons. The likelihood of extreme violence was obvious, especially when one African American group maintained that they were armed and prepared to kill police whom they viewed as the enemy.

Now, place all of this in context, President Trump has ordered the US Military to sell/provide military grade weapons and vehicles to police. What can he be thinking?

Already a fairly large proportion of the US population feel isolated from police as protectors, what will this do?


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