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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 01:17
Well one can care about both the Samis and the Rapa Nui at the same time (and about other peoples too).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2010 at 01:45
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Well one can care about both the Samis and the Rapa Nui at the same time (and about other peoples too).


I care about poor standard Swedish people that has to stand you LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 05:22
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Not to fear, Gcle, there is not a single thread of Humanist Marxism that characterized the original usage of the term New Left consequent to the Hungarian Revolt of 1956 and the coinage that identified Marcuse, Gramsci, and Althusser but instead refers to the phenom that had its birth with C. Wright Mills and social activism as a function of agiprop and as  a means of reaching the Nirvana known then, and even more so now, as the Counter Culture. That such humbug has now reached its apogee, an effort at a valid contemporary definition for the term requires that one recognize that it is little more than a rabid egalitarianism fueled solely by a nihilism decrying Western Culture.
 
Think of it as the vacuity of a discursor who cares not for the intellectual validity of their contention but solely on just how loud they can be so as to drown out all objections.


What is "agiprop"? Is it simply a misspelled "агитпроп" (agitprop)?


Edited by Anton - 18 Dec 2010 at 05:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 05:42
Agiprop is shorthand for agitational propaganda via the Mass Media. In the days of more "primitive" communications it was known as agitprop and associated with Bolshevist Russia; however, the older construct has a remote historical setting and really identifies too closely with the Russian milieu at the opening of the 20th century. Consequently, to avoid the firm connection to political communism and bring to the fore the full complexity of the term, the shorter agiprop is to be preferred.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2010 at 05:50
So is it some secondary change in English language? 'cause I never heard "агипроп" to be used in Russian. "Агитпроп" is used to refer both -- Otdel Agitacionnoy Propagandy and just propaganda in general.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 11:22
lol, thanks for asking that question Anton. I too was confused by this ungooglable term
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 12:43
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

lol, thanks for asking that question Anton. I too was confused by this ungooglable term
 
Ah they must be censoring Google in Australia...the rise of agiprop comes arm-in-arm with the revolution in communications technology. Here is a sample:
 
 
Anyway, since none of us are former members of the Russian propaganda elite or partook action in that particula bureau of the old International, the demarxified term is much more adept at description without the need to raise hoary ghosts.Wink Also of interest, participation does not require the presence of a state organism or doctrinaire party--although the stuff put out by many NGOs comes out pretty damn close!Evil Smile
 
PS to Anton: You aren't right Anton?
 
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 22 Dec 2010 at 12:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 22:00
It is not ungooglable(funny word) term, Omar. You can find it on google scholar in few articles:
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=agiprop&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=2001&as_sdtp=on

"PS to Anton: You aren't right Anton?"
Why am I not right?  I did not find the word "agiprop" in any Russian dictionary. In fact, it sounds a bit weird for my Russian ear. Majority of Russian syllabic abbreviations usually (although not always) are formed with closed syllables:
GorGaz
MosSovet
LenFil'm
KolHoz
GazProm
RosNeft'
etc.

Exceptions are formed usually with syllables ending with O or E and, apparently, with longer words:
MosSoLit
KomSoMol
teleset'

That's why I asked if this is secondary change in English language or used in some specific  Russian articles as well.





Edited by Anton - 22 Dec 2010 at 22:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 23:02
I always considered agitprop (short for agitation propaganda) to be the correct term. I have never heard of agiprop before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2010 at 23:13
Goes for me too, though again I came up against it in a Russian context.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2010 at 02:08
Anton, often I forget that nuances in English are often missed by speakers of other languages. Did you not note that the little postscript is posed in the form of a question? Further, had I been challenging your assertion, I would have simply stated such with the noun correct. Right is right unless you are on the left or of the left (OK admittedly abusive word play). I certainly could understand your reservations with respect to agitprop but because in essence it derives from an acronym, its old Soviet baggage might imply more than its user intends. as I explained above I wanted a much more contemporary setting free from any historical innuendo. Then there are the rules of English to consider when playing with prefixes to the central meaning (in this instance propaganda), the preferred form here is agi- carrying the sense of doing or making.
 
 
Keep in mind that unlike Russian, English abhorrs closed syllables in word formation! Chalk it up to those Latinized NormansEmbarrassed!


Edited by drgonzaga - 24 Dec 2010 at 02:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2010 at 03:38
Let it be agiprop then :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 01:57
One can also read about the violence against Amerindians in books like: 
 
Ward Churchill, (1998). A Little Matter Of Genocide: Holocaust And Denial In The Americas 1492 To The Present.
 
Rupert Costo and Jeannette Henry Costo (ed), 1987: The Missions of California - A Legacy of Genocide. (A good case study about genocide and ethnocide caused by Spanish missionaries).
 
 
About recent problems for Amerindians and other indigenous peoples one can read reports and articles by organisations like IWGIA and Survival International.
 
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 12 Jan 2011 at 02:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 03:54
Yes, Ward Churchil is a very prestigious schollar. Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 04:44
Churchill's entry in wikipedia doesn't do much to bolster any academic reputation, certainly in this field. Someone who goes around claimiing to be Cherokee[1] when the tribe denies that he is, and is said to have reneged on a promise to help the tribe doesn't impress as an authority either.
 
And apparently faking a claim to have served as a paratrooper in Vietnam is hardly endearing either.
 
[1] at least 1/16th
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 06:29
Ward Churchill?...Stern Smile



Ha. ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/us/25professor.html

A most contemptible man who, and i am quoting the good doctor here, revels in the agitprop. A scholar he most certainly is not!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 07:42
When you run across the term "ethnic studies" run for the hills since you know you are in the Land of the Loons. Ethnography and ethnology are one thing but when you venture into the "ethnic" you know that the paradigm demands the consideration of Racism as a valid distinction in the human experience and carries with it all of the moral and ethical implication raised by the capital letter "R".
 
Note the following self-admissions:
 

The Department of Ethnic Studies at UCSD is a key center of empirical and theoretically-based research, outstanding teaching, and creative collaborations that promote social justice. We offer an innovative vision of the post/colonial world and its peoples for the 21st century. Our faculty and students focus on fundamental theoretical and political questions regarding the critical conceptualization of social categories, particularly race, indigeneity, culture, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, class, and nation. We engage and elucidate alternative epistemologies that have emerged from racialized and indigenous communities in a U.S. and transnational context in order to produce new knowledges for the academy and broader public.  We are committed to rethinking these issues in a comparative, relational, and interdisciplinary fashion in order to interrogate questions of power, violence and inequality.

For more information about the Ethnic Studies Department, please contact the UCSD Ethnic Studies Department, 858-534-3276 or ethnicstudies@ucsd.edu

or

The Department of Ethnic Studies (ES) encourages the comparative study of racialization in the Americas, with a focus on the histories, literatures, and politics of Asian Americans, Chicanos/Latinos, Native American Indians, and African Americans. ES seeks to situate these core groups within national and transnational contexts, and to understand how racial and ethnic formation articulate with other axes of stratification such as class, gender, and sexuality.

Our approach is interdisciplinary in nature. Studies interrogate the relationship of social structure to those of literary and cultural practices, and in so doing question traditional disciplinary boundaries and assumptions. Our scholarly concerns are explicitly linked to the development of a social practice. Inquiries into the nature of racial, ethnic, and gender inequality are informed by a commitment to social change and social justice.

The undergraduate programs in Asian American, Chicano/Latino, and Native American Studies (along with the Department of African American Studies) investigate the social, political, and cultural factors that shape the core groups' formation and transformation. Research on these specific core groups lays the foundations for the overall comparative project of ES.

As one of the oldest programs focusing on race and ethnicity, the Ethnic Studies Department is committed to understanding more deeply the multiple meanings of racial diversity in the Americas.

Ethnic Studies Department, 506 Barrows Hall #2570, Berkeley, CA 94720-2570 ethnicst@berkeley.edu
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 07:45
I am not a Chicano/Latino, but a Chilean citizen. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2011 at 23:57
We ofcourse also have books like:
 
Persson, Lars: De dodsdomda indianerna (the Doomed Indians)
 
Meunier, J & Savarin, A. M: Murder in the Amazon
 
And once again also read the reports and documents from Survival International (for example the informative and enlightening report: Progress can Kill) and IWGIA (many good documents, including annual reports about the situation of Indigenous peoples around the world).
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 00:00
Carcha. Do you know that the Indigenous Brazilian population is booming right now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 05:14
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

We ofcourse also have books like:
 
Persson, Lars: De dodsdomda indianerna (the Doomed Indians)
 
Meunier, J & Savarin, A. M: Murder in the Amazon
 
And once again also read the reports and documents from Survival International (for example the informative and enlightening report: Progress can Kill) and IWGIA (many good documents, including annual reports about the situation of Indigenous peoples around the world).
 
Do you ever pay any attention when the feet of clay of your idols are so thoroughly exposed?
 
Before you start throwing other stuff at us, let's have your reaction to Ward Churchill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 19:44
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

We ofcourse also have books like:
 
Persson, Lars: De dodsdomda indianerna (the Doomed Indians)
 
Meunier, J & Savarin, A. M: Murder in the Amazon
 
And once again also read the reports and documents from Survival International (for example the informative and enlightening report: Progress can Kill) and IWGIA (many good documents, including annual reports about the situation of Indigenous peoples around the world).
 
Do you ever pay any attention when the feet of clay of your idols are so thoroughly exposed?
 
Before you start throwing other stuff at us, let's have your reaction to Ward Churchill.
 
As regarding to Ward Churchill, it seems that many just join the usual chorus of denial without even having read his book. It seems as he touch upon a somewhat sensitive subject, pointing out the genocides that have affected Americas indigenous peoples.
But ofcourse, Stannards and Churchills books are syntheses, to get deeper into the subject one has to read case studies and more spelialized works.


Edited by Carcharodon - 13 Jan 2011 at 19:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 19:49
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Carcha. Do you know that the Indigenous Brazilian population is booming right now?
 
Yes, the situation for some of the Brasilian groups is indeed improving, but the danger for many others are not over yet. Some peoples are in a critical situation.
 
Not to mention about the situation in for example Colombia where 32 peoples are in peril right now:
 
Quote
But even more hidden is the emergency situation of Indigenous Peoples in Colombia. Colombias National Indigenous Organization, ONIC, has launched a campaign to draw attention to the fact that at least 32 Indigenous Peoples are literally on the brink of extinction due to the ongoing armed conflict and the imposition of development projects in Indigenous lands without their free, prior and informed consent, as well as state neglect.
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 13 Jan 2011 at 20:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 20:03
Also, I can again mention a book that I touched upon in the thread about dogs. It is Dogs of the Conquest by John Grier Varner and Jeannette Johnson Varner. It describes how the Spanish invaders utilized ferocious dogs as weapons against the Amerindians in the Caribbean and other places in the Americas. The book shows the extreme brutality of the invaders when they used dogs for combat, tracking and as instruments for torture and execution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 21:43
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
Yes, the situation for some of the Brasilian groups is indeed improving, but the danger for many others are not over yet. Some peoples are in a critical situation.


And? What's your point Carcha?
 
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


Not to mention about the situation in for example Colombia where 32 peoples are in peril right now:


32 people?
Have you forgotten that Colombia has lost hundred of thousand of people in the endless civil wars and cartel wars?  Go there to deffend the human rights of people, if you are couragious enough, of course.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 21:45
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Also, I can again mention a book that I touched upon in the thread about dogs. It is Dogs of the Conquest by John Grier Varner and Jeannette Johnson Varner. It describes how the Spanish invaders utilized ferocious dogs as weapons against the Amerindians in the Caribbean and other places in the Americas. The book shows the extreme brutality of the invaders when they used dogs for combat, tracking and as instruments for torture and execution.


What's  the news, Carcha? That's something Latin Americans have known for ever. You don't need to consult gringos; consult us.  Anything else you want to ask?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 21:47
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


What's  the news, Carcha? That's something Latin Americans have known for ever. You don't need to consult gringos; consult us.  Anything else you want to ask?

 
Yes, what about archaeological remains from the early times of conquest? Some remains of these dogs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 21:48
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


32 people?
 
Peoples, like in groups, or tribes, or nations, not 32 persons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 21:49
Anyways, have you any idea what has going on in Colombia in the last half a century? Do you know how many died?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2011 at 22:02
Yes I am aware of that. But that does not diminish the danger for the indigenous peoples.
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