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African Involvement In Slavery

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Vhedza1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Dec 2018 at 05:31
Glad to have found this community...and am happy to share my first contribution on the role played by Africans in the Slave Trade:

Africans & The Slave Trade

During the era of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, Europeans did not have the power to invade African states or kidnap African slaves at will. For the most part, the 12.5 million slaves transported across the Atlantic Ocean were purchased from African slave traders.

Blackness (as an identity or marker of difference) was a preoccupation of Europeans, not Africans and there was also in this era no sense of being ‘African’…African Involvement In The Slave Trade can thus be understood from this perspective.

https://afrikaiswoke.com/2018/08/30/african-involvement-in-slave-trade/

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2018 at 10:46
The aim of this forum is not to "cherry pick" articles or text from other web sites, but to originate discussion on matters of interest, using your own intellect to pass opinions, make judgements and so on.

We're here to discuss and sometimes debate historical matters, and sometimes to reveal breaking news.

Your articles are simply text picked from someone elses work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vhedza1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2018 at 12:11
It's credited that's why I link to the original source instead of pretending I wrote it...I could just rewrite and pretend it's all mine but I don't do that and make it clear where the Text is from...The point is not that I wrote it myself but what the article is actually saying...If I agree with It, I don't see the need to re-invent the wheel especially if I credit the source...It's not about me but the content of the actual article...Would it make a difference if the article said the exact same thing in my own words which would be easy for me to do and you wouldn't know where I got it...I thought that's why we reference and link to the original
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 09:51
Originally posted by Vhedza1 Vhedza1 wrote:

It's credited that's why I link to the original source instead of pretending I wrote it...I could just rewrite and pretend it's all mine but I don't do that and make it clear where the Text is from...The point is not that I wrote it myself but what the article is actually saying...If I agree with It, I don't see the need to re-invent the wheel especially if I credit the source...It's not about me but the content of the actual article...Would it make a difference if the article said the exact same thing in my own words which would be easy for me to do and you wouldn't know where I got it...I thought that's why we reference and link to the original

That's OK as far as it goes. By all means quote other texts and post the attribution, but it would be a lot better, IMHO, if you offered your own comments, arguments etc on the text. You may agree with the text, or not, but offer your own insights so that we all have the opportunity to include you into the forum by discussing or debating your opinions with you.

Good luck,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vhedza1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 10:15
Thanks...It's just that if someone says what I'm already thinking, I dont need to pretend that it's my own idea except to communicate it...I appreciate your understanding...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 11:39
That makes sense, being from Africa, you probably have insight into such matters, that we do not.  I know that in America, there is a lot of incentive in sections of the black community and out of "sympathy" amongst liberals, to paint it as a one sided thing.  Something that Europeans and Americans (including South America, not just 'the South'), did _to_ Africans.  It ignores that some African chieftains got rich off of raiding parties to feed the slave market.  It also ignores that the Arab world was probably a larger slave market than the European/American connection. On the other hand, the Arab world was probably more 'equal opportunity' enslavers than the Europeans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2018 at 02:55
The Arabs were merciless slavers and preferred to kill all grown, healthy men. They would usually take the phallus and kill the warriors.
Women and children were worked to death in five years or so and so Arabs scheduled their journeys with the expectation of replenishing bodies with another raid. Arabs never bred with African women and they still don't. 
“The United Nations is the biggest joke of this century. If each one is trying to assert his own rights there, how can there be a United Nations?” UG Krishnamurti
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vhedza1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2018 at 03:04
Thats the main reason I posted the article because the liberal thinking is not accurate and Africans are too quick to go with it because it offers sympathy but facts are facts...The Slave Trade at such a massive scale was simply not possible without African collaboration...We need to deal with that realistically as Africans...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2018 at 10:59
Vanuatu wrote
Quote Arabs never bred with African women and they still don't.

I don't think you can say that with any certainty.

In Africa, we have a preponderance of people with classic "Negroid" phenotypes.

There are Bedouins and other desert nomad tribes whose phenotypes are slightly different.

Then you have Ethiopians, who usually have dark skin but, generally their features are more European.

In North Africa, there are people whose skin colour and facial features vary, such as Libyans whose outward appearance is different again, and varies throughout the country, IMHO, due to mixed parentage over time.

While most Arabs tend towards lighter skin, hooked (Jewish?) noses, dark hair and brown eyes, I think if ethnologists/ geneticists dip into the DNA of many Africans, they will find an Arab admixture.




Edited by toyomotor - 11 Dec 2018 at 17:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2018 at 14:35
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu wrote
Quote Arabs never bred with African women and they still don't.

I don't think you can say that with any certainty.

In Africa, we have a preponderance of people with classic "Negroid" phenotypes.

There are Bedouins and other desert nomad tribes whose phenotypes are slightly different.

Then you have Ethiopians, who usually have dark skin but, generally their features are more European.

In North Africa, their are people whose skin colour and facial features vary, such as Libyans whose outward appearance is different again, and varies throughout the country, IMHO, due to mixed parentage over time.

While most Arabs tend towards lighter skin, hooked (Jewish?) noses, dark hair and brown eyes, I think if ethnologists/ geneticists dip into the DNA of many Africans, they will find an Arab admixture.


In the brief article a light skinned North African finds out that in Saudi Arabia he is considered less honorable or at the level of slave in social standing. He had believed his Arab lineage made him superior outside of the Sudan as it had been in North Africa.
Sudan is at one point only 120 miles across the Red Sea from Saudi Arabia. This population did interbreed since the earliest times. It's not just an exchange of Arab DNA but Arab ideology and way of life. Their high social standing evaporates outside of the Sudan.

“The United Nations is the biggest joke of this century. If each one is trying to assert his own rights there, how can there be a United Nations?” UG Krishnamurti
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 18:02
It's my understanding that Arabs were not the only people involved in the slave trade.

I understand that it became a common practice for warring African (Negro) tribes to sell off captured enemies, especially along the east coast of Africa.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2019 at 12:18
I think that probably most cultures in the world had slavery, or serfdom which I consider slavery one step removed.  Something that i think is often overlooked is that a slave-owner is on some level responsible for the slave, both in terms of conduct and in terms of welfare.  That is probably also the case with indentured servitude.  That is not the case with serfdom nor sharecroppers.

A slave-owner in both ancient times and modern would probably be on some level accountable for a slave's misdeeds.  Socially accountable if not legally.

Cato the Elder was a bit of a bastard in that he believed in spending the least he could on slaves.  Minimum clothing, minimum on food.  Obviously there is a bit of an incentive for an owner (looking on a slave as an economic investment), to spend less rather than more on a slave.

We might congratulate ourselves on giving up slavery, but really what happened is that machines made slaves increasingly obsolete.  That is now happening with many jobs these days, particularly in manufacturing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2019 at 13:41
Quote A slave-owner in both ancient times and modern would probably be on some level accountable for a slave's misdeeds.  Socially accountable if not legally.

If only that has been true.

Slave owners owned the slaves, lock, stock and barrel. The owners could do with them what ever they wanted. Read the Falconhurst series of books, they'll give you an indication of a slave's position in the hierarchy of humanity, about three rungs lower than a flea or a turd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2019 at 09:51
Slaves in the Roman Empire could purchase their freedom, which meant that they could earn money.  Some slaves could be quite powerful, even over free born, for example educated administrators in the Roman Empire.  Of course, others were sent to the mines.  They didn't have prisons in the ancient world like we have prisons, instead of locking someone up, they often sold them into slavery.  Owners did not necessarily treat them nicely, but if they misbehaved, but not to a criminal extent, then their owners were responsible for disciplining them.  If an owner was powerful and would not discipline a slave, then a mere freeman would probably have no recourse.

Slavery was a way of assimilating populations on the border of an empire in the ancient world (Rome).  In time, a slave could earn his freedom, and become a freeman.  In turn, he might start up a workshop of slaves taken in war or border wars.  These in turn would learn skills, earn money, purchase their freedom and start the cycle over again.  Of course, the Roman Villas would probably more like plantations, but without much of the racial connotation.  And again, individuals might count their luck that they were not a galley slave, or sent to the mines.

Of course, Christianity was a religion of slaves and women, which is one reason why it survived, compared to ________, which was popular only amongst Roman soldiers.  [the name escapes me:( ]  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2019 at 09:06
In what is now Benin the history of the Dahomian kingdom starts around 1600. The tribe's recollection of kings and their conquests of neighboring tribes is marked by the skulls of resistors to capture and their oral history. There is no creation myth or story of the first humans. Cudjo Lewis, the subject of Zora Neale Hurston's "Barracoon" stated without a doubt there was no deity no ancestral home or dwelling place.

Dahomey Amazons[edit]

Main article: Dahomey Amazons
Dahomey female soldiers.

The Dahomean state became widely known for its corps of female soldiers. Their origins are debated; they may have formed from a palace guard or from gbetos (female hunting teams).[18]

They were organized around 1729 to fill out the army and make it look larger in battle, armed only with banners. The women reportedly behaved so courageously they became a permanent corps. In the beginning, the soldiers were criminals pressed into service rather than being executed. Eventually, however, the corps became respected enough that King Ghezo ordered every family to send him their daughters, with the fittest being chosen as soldiers.[dubious – discuss]



toyomotor, you mentioned the Dutch and they encountered the Dahomeans around the 16th century  they feature in the Dahomian history in the form of a monarchy. Though lacking the usual application it existed among Dahomians by the 17th century and the Portuguese slavers influenced the Dahomean society, 

http://https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/agex/hd_agex.htm

Portugal’s extended contact with Islam, and therefore with its superior mathematical knowledge and sailing technologies, including sail shapes, hull designs, and maritime weaponry, resulted in a Portuguese fleet capable of negotiating the high Atlantic seas.

https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/agex/hd_agex.htm

Many African cities were even deemed to be larger, more hygienic, and better organized than those of Europe. Additionally, the Portuguese shared many beliefs about magic, the supernatural, and the treatment of illness with the African societies they encountered. Protective amulets in both cultures were considered medicinally valuable, and sickness in general was attributed to witchcraft.

http://https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-tradeTraditional African rulers whose ancestors collaborated with European and Arab slave traders should follow Britain and the United States by publicly saying sorry, according to human rights organisations.

The Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria has written to tribal chiefs saying: "We cannot continue to blame the white men, as Africans, particularly the traditional rulers, are not blameless."

The appeal has reopened a sensitive debate over the part some chiefs played in helping to capture their fellow Africans and sell them into bondage as part of the transatlantic slave trade.

The congress argued that the ancestors of the chiefs had helped to raid and kidnap defenceless communities and traded them to Europeans. They should now apologise to "put a final seal to the history of slave trade", it said.

AMEN




Edited by Vanuatu - 26 Jan 2019 at 09:07
“The United Nations is the biggest joke of this century. If each one is trying to assert his own rights there, how can there be a United Nations?” UG Krishnamurti
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